Episode #162: The Remarkable Journey of David Vonner: From Marvel Dreamer to Toy Legend

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How do you go from a dreamer with comic book aspirations to a toy industry legend and award-winning toy designer? Today’s guest shares his incredible journey as an artist, parent, and toy designer from the 1990s until now. His toy journey will inspire you to take a risk, put in your all, and go that extra mile.

David Vonner’s original dream was to be an illustrator for Marvel Comics. However, his family and those surrounding him encouraged him to go down a path that would ensure a good career. After attending the Art Institute of Philadelphia, David got his first design job at Spencer’s, and then went through a slew of creative toy jobs that led him to work at Marvel as a toy designer for 5-6 years, before moving on to Hasbro to work on their Marvel-licensed products. 

In today’s episode you will learn how connections helped David to advance in the toy industry, how he went from traditional employment to starting his own company, and his best piece of advice for people in the toy industry today. His toy story is captivating, informative, and inspirational!

EPISODE CLIFF NOTES

• Learn how David’s love of comics helped him to develop drawing skills in childhood. [00:08:47]

• Find out the surprising connections that led David to think of a career outside of comics. [00:19:09]

• Learn about the difficult and shocking event that delayed David’s college experience by 3 years and made him even more determined to succeed. [00:22:44]

• Find out why David redid his entire portfolio the weekend before a job interview. [00:28:11]

• Learn the first product that David designed at his first job. [00:35:05]

• Hear the heart racing tale of how David lost the address to the new Marvel offices on his way to the interview! You’ll be surprised where he was able to find it. [00:49:44]

• Learn the advice that helped David not only survive but thrive while working on the Marvel team at Hasbro. [00:59:55]

• Find out how David took care of his mental health after a difficult time in the toy industry. [01:22:53]

• Learn how David started his own studio, Vonner Studios [01:33:51]

• Mentioned In This Episode

  This episode is brought to you by www.thetoycoach.com

  Visit Nacelle Company’s website by clicking here.

  Find out more about the film Black Inventors Hall Of Fame “The Gathering” by clicking here.

  Follow David on Instagram here.

• Episode Transcript

  [00:00:00] You are listening to Making It in The Toy Industry, episode number 162.

  [00:00:18] Hey there, toy people. Azhelle Wade here and welcome back to another episode of the Toy Coach Podcast, making it in the Toy Industry. This is a weekly podcast brought to you by thetoycoach.com. My guest today is a gentleman named David Vonner. He's designed some of your favorite toys, action figures, and collectibles from the Rock Band Kiss to your friendly neighborhood, spider-Man and superstars of the WWE e David has designed and developed products for notable companies such as Spencer's Gifts Incorporated, Marvel, spin Master, Hasbro Mattel, and Netflix after being responsible for generating hundreds of millions of dollars in sales revenue for other companies.

  [00:01:01] David co-founded the pop culture collectibles and apparels company Casual Friday with the K, as well as his very own Bonner Studios. So David's a 25 plus year toy industry veteran. He's a part of the design and development team responsible for the widely popular six inch collector action figure line, Marvel legend, and so much more.

  [00:01:22] David has worked on various comic book inspired toy and action figure lines that have led to the current superhero movie and toy boom that many of us enjoy.

  [00:01:33] Having received various toy awards and some are still coming, we'll talk about that later. David currently serves as the chief creative officer of physical product for the Nelle Company and is a pop culture fanatic that loves to be a kid at heart. So he can be seen discussing his love for pop culture and toys on the Netflix docu-series, the toys that made us Marvel six 16 Unboxed, which is currently streaming on Disney Plus.

  [00:01:56] But today David and I are gonna talk about his career in the toy industry. He's got advice for people that want to break into the toy industry. And David is a, what do you call yourself? African American or Black American. What term do you prefer?

  [00:02:11] David Vonner: You know, it's funny. I I, I can, I consider myself like an African American.

  [00:02:16] I'm black, you know, you know. But when it comes to being a designer, I just, I'm a designer, you know, I'm a developer. I'm a tour guy, you know, and, and who just happens to be black, you know? Yes. And, and I'm proud. , you know.

  [00:02:30] Azhelle Wade: Yeah, , I wanna say David is also an African American in the toy industry like myself.

  [00:02:37] So I say that because if there's some of you listening to this podcast who are black Americans, African Americans, however you identify, and you're looking for someone to look up to, I think I might have the person right here, . So David, welcome to the show.

  [00:02:52] David Vonner: Thank you. Thank you, thank you. And, and, and I mean, it's an honor to be here, but also really to answer your question, why I answer that way.

  [00:02:58] I mean, I'm 50 years old. So I, I actually remember when we weren't called African Americans , right? Like, we were actually in a, when I was born, we were actually coming out of being called Colored, you know, and that, that was an extension from Negro. So around when I was a kid, you know, Afrocentricity was really big.

  [00:03:18] So it was Afro Americans and was proud to be black, you know? So I never actually had to think of it about the, how, you know, things have migrated and changed or, or mutated or just, yeah, just evolved over time. But yeah, I mean, when I was a, you know, African American wasn't even a term, you know, and I mean, we literally were just coming out of being called Color Now, I think on my Birther Certifi certificate, I actually have Negro on there. .

  [00:03:47] Azhelle Wade: Stop it. Yeah.

  [00:03:50] David Vonner: You know, I was born in 1972, you know, so it was a lot of things that were still carrying over from a, from a older period of time, you know, just because, you know, for instance, like with, with you know, the, the 1964 Civil Rights Act, you know, even though everything was instituted, it took a long time for those systems to actually come online, you know, so to speak.

  [00:04:14] Right. You know, so there was still a lot of old practices, a lot of old methods that were, you know, the sign of the times. And you know, my birth certificate either says Negro or colored, but it definitely doesn't say

  [00:04:27] Azhelle Wade: African American. That's, I can't, I can't even. You forget how recent all these changes were.

  [00:04:33] So,

  [00:04:33] David Vonner: listen, I mean, that's another thing. I mean, you think about how old your grandmother is and then you , you know, subtract that and then how old her grandmother was, like, we're two grandmothers away from, from mm-hmm. A time, and a place where America was vastly different. But it's so much of a shame that we are living in the 21st century where she would be focusing on our flying cars.

  [00:05:00] We're still handcuffed by a lot of things from the 18th, 19th, and 20th century. And I mean, I was just speaking to a bunch of kids in Redding, Pennsylvania, you know, and at Redding High School and also our university. And it's, it's a shame that we still have to have these conversations about race.

  [00:05:20] About gender, we should be worried about, you know, the environment, you know, so many ways to apply our technology. So many things for us to see and to be forward in and forward thinkers on.

  [00:05:33] And to, to think that we have so many archaic ways that are handcuffing us, or in most cases, brainwashing us to behave like we are not as advanced as we are. And we should be leaning into that. We gotta learn from history to not make, repeat the mistakes, not, not dig ourselves in a deeper hole.

  [00:05:56] Azhelle Wade: So, okay, we're go, we're gonna go deep in this conversation.

  [00:05:59] Okay. But I do wanna start with your, your toy history. Like, why, like, did you always know you were gonna work in this industry?

  [00:06:06] David Vonner: No, I, I honestly, I didn't, you know I always wanted to be a comic illustrator. That was my dream, dream dream to be a comic illustrator and to be a Marvel, comical illustrator.

  [00:06:16] And I had that dream since I was a little kid. I've always been fascinated with comic books. I love 'em. You know, I always keep 'em around I just love, I love everything about it, you know? Right. Just the creation of a comic book is very tribal, you know, it takes a lot of different individuals.

  [00:06:32] The writer, the penciller, the anchor, the colorist, the letterer, you know, it takes all these, the editor, the writer, you know what I mean? It takes all, all these individuals. Yeah. And then it's like hand staple, you know what I mean? And printed and just the whole process was just such an intimate form of entertainment for me, you know?

  [00:06:50] And so I, I mean, I was, my mom was a big pop culture fan who loved comics. My dad was a big pop culture fan who loved comics. Marvel was really hitting the scene when they became young adults and everything. Mm-hmm. and so, and also my dad was an artist. My mom is a Renaissance woman, so literally comic books was in the crib when I was born.

  [00:07:12] You know, they were both 20 when I, when I was born, you know, so they, I literally had comic books in the crib.

  [00:07:17] Azhelle Wade: You always love comic books, but you always a talented

  [00:07:20] David Vonner: artist? No, no. I mean, I, I love, I always like to read, you know, and I was doodling and I guess I was an artist.

  [00:07:29] I mean, just like any kid mm-hmm. and kid that's like, you know, scribbles on the wall and wants to paint on their face and their body and, you know, pain on the floors. Like, you just want to just splash stuff around. You know, really since you're a kid, you have no frame of reference. You're really immersed in the world around you, you know, you really have no other idea what anything is.

  [00:07:50] So, but comic books was something that I could tell was like, you know, even though I didn't know that it was actually art, when I was able to conceive what art is, I knew that they was like, special because they just looked hand drawn and, and that was just so special to me, you know? And, and so yeah, I mean, I used to draw and then I, it initially got better and when I, when I really started to focus like, at a young age and really was like, man, I can, if I, if I, I can do this.

  [00:08:19] Like, you know, people were gas in my head up. And that's another thing when you're a kid, You know, when you a kid drop picture, everybody gass your head. Oh baby. That's like, oh my gosh. So

  [00:08:28] Azhelle Wade: yeah. Right,

  [00:08:29] David Vonner: right, right. Oh my God, look at my baby. You know, all that stuff. So, you know that, that is important to a kid, you know, because you see, as adults, we still look for that positive reinforcement, and if we don't mm-hmm.

  [00:08:43] when we go for long periods of time, it really has a negative effect on it. When I was born at a period of time, I was the only baby in the family. Like for a short period of time. It was just me, and I'm the only child. So it was, it was like when it, so you got all the, all the attention.

  [00:08:58] Right. It's almost like when. Have you ever seen like when an elephant gives birth, you know, to a baby elephant, what happens? The whole, the whole herd just, oh, I didn't, I didn't know what happens with the herd. No. Yeah, yeah. The entire herd actually comes around the baby and they all like start blowing their trunks and everything.

  [00:09:17] I mean, it's almost like a celebration of life and Oh, that's so cool. That's very much how it was for me, you know? So I always had this positive reinforcement and my Christmas, it was always big. Like all my cousins, like my family came to my house on Christmas to play with my stuff cause I had so much stuff.

  [00:09:34] Yeah. It wasn't until I went to the outside world. Where I, where people told me I couldn't do something when someone said I looked different, that I was different. Mm-hmm. , it wasn't until I finally went out to the real world, like, and I was young kindergarten where I started to receive backlash for just being me for, whatever reason.

  [00:09:56] And I never under, never understood that, particularly when I had no frame of reference to that. So that made me like really close in, you know? So with that, I was just like, that really made, also made me type on my creativity. So I would draw. Cause when I was a kid, you said you could draw, you would get challenged on that.

  [00:10:15] And if you could draw, people actually beat you up. If you kind of say that you're kind of bringing all this attention onto yourself, and you're, you're saying that you could do something that clearly takes a, some skill that other people can't do.

  [00:10:26] Kids could be cruel and they can either find jealous in that, or, or, or other types of behaviors could manifest from that, particularly if their own life is messed up. And that's the kind of stuff that was would happen, you know? So it's like you had to show and prove. And, and so I came from that Sure.

  [00:10:42] And prove error, you know? So if I wasn't ready to prove it, then I had to get ready to show it. So if it was ready to be shown, then I had to really prove. Ready.

  [00:10:52] Azhelle Wade: So do you think that ever held you back in your career? Like you feeling, like just growing up in that mentality of like, if I have to, I'm gonna tell people I can do this, I have to be ready to do it 150%.

  [00:11:03] Do you ever think that held you back? Maybe

  [00:11:05] David Vonner: Actually, I think that it, it prepared me to be more of a go-getter actually. You know, because what it did was every, you know, after that everything was just driven me to be able to button it up. So I like, if, if I want to know how to do something, then I want to know how to do it with the team.

  [00:11:22] Like back in the day when you play video game, you call it mastering the game. So I wanted to master the game. Yeah. You know, I played the, when I was, became a perfectionist. Right. You know, and I, when I was, I played the flute when I was a kid. I played the drums when I was a kid. I was drum captain my sophomore year in high school.

  [00:11:37] It's like when you have to apply yourself and then you start getting results, you know, you just start to, at least for me, you know, I just really love being able to prove other people wrong at that point.

  [00:11:50] Azhelle Wade: I wanna know how you came to get into the toy industry. Like you really like comics and you show improve that you were an artist and then what happened? Did somebody see your artwork and say you should make your own comic, which led you to licensing, which led you to toys?

  [00:12:05] Like what happened?

  [00:12:05] David Vonner: No, you know, like I said, I've always had a really good family unit around me. And um, yeah, yeah, because of like the climate of the situation that was coming, you know, when I was born it was, there was a lot of promise, when I was born, this is like not too long after Bar Luther King gave us

  [00:12:21] I have a dream speech. And that speech, even though everyone wants to romanticize the speech and, and, and just focus on that, I have a dream part. That speech was about the progression of our people and it's directly impact the generation that was coming. And that was us. Like we were being born into this new world that he was talking about, like, you gotta fix this, right?

  [00:12:45] We gotta make this better because this new generation, these kids, our world needs something better and E and, and this generation could do that. So I was part of that and quickly that the client became to become evident. So my family prepared me. They were like, look, you can't just rely on having the ability to draw pictures.

  [00:13:07] You gotta have a, you have a sense of where you want to go with this. You gotta have a job. You gotta make this work for you. You know, so, mm-hmm. , by the time. You know, it's time for me to graduate from high school. You know, this is, you know, now we jumping into, you know, 8 19 89, 19 90. You know, comic books, even though it was popular, even though it was popular, still wasn't a, a huge, huge, you know career profit five generator.

  [00:13:36] Like, you know, you had to, in order to, you know, get paid the high bucks you had to be an elite artist, you know, and you had to do a lot of the grunt work. And sometimes, like, and we talk about a hundred dollars a page, $200 a page, and these pages could be done like maybe two, three days tops, you know?

  [00:13:56] So it's a lot of work on the front end, you know? And also like, again, I was born in Atlantic City. I actually used to be a dealer at the Sands Hotel at Casino when I was in college. And my mom was actually a pit boss.

  [00:14:08] So she had to make sure everything was flowing and, and you know, she worked in the casino industry, her entire, like my, my life coming up in school. So because she worked in, in, in that industry, in Atlantic City at that time, she had contact to the world that no one else really had. So, and she knew a lot of the entertainers, you know, like Steve Wyn, who you know, has Wind Casino and in, in Las Vegas and stuff. He used to have, you know, his casino in Atlantic City and he was trying to get move. He's trying to get my mom to move to Puerto Rico, to open casinos there. He used to call my house.

  [00:14:46] I used to call him Uncle Steve. He used to send me gifts for Christmas trying to get my mom to come a casino, you know, so, wow. This was, these were the individuals that were kind of like, you know, hovering around in my life. When my mom was witnessing this, my family witnessed this, so by the time I graduated, they were like, look, you probably should consider a career in advertising, you know, because okay.

  [00:15:11] You know, that will always be constant, you know, advertisable always be around. You will always have to have a reason to sell something, and it will always have to be someone who's going to create those ads, you know? You know, Elaine said at the time, it was gray billboard heavy, you know? And, and, right.

  [00:15:27] Okay. Magazines were still big at the time, you know, so, and I, that was really one of the first actual arguments that me and my mom had, me and my family had. Cause I, you know, I really, but my mom also wanted me to go to Joe Cub with School of Art. And that's what kind of Flipp, because she actually met, she met like, she met somebody who had a Bara at the casino.

  [00:15:49] And they were staying, they were basically telling her that, you know, if you want your son to be able to get a career in art, he has to have a solid foundation. Like he has to learn everything. So in her mind, she was like, you know, I want you to be well equipped. You got the talent right. You got that. Yeah.

  [00:16:07] Now let's get everything else together. You know, that's all that. But, but, but in the realm of, of, of what interests me, you know? So I went to the, I finally relinquished, you know, and, and and then I found the school, which was the Art Institute of Philadelphia. And you know, I went there and I got accepted.

  [00:16:26] I went on a tour there, you know, and I was like, man, like, just seeing all these creative people and doing different things like fashion and, you know ad stuff, photography, music, you know, it was just, it was just like, it was like fame, you know? It was like that, that show fame. That that's so fame. The new fame.

  [00:16:42] It was like that. Yeah. That would be, and I was like, man, like I, I felt like, I felt like I was finding my try. You know what I.

  [00:16:48] When I finally went there and I mentioned the advertising graphic design, but I nearly realized that I was a very small fish and a very, very big, big ocean of talent, you know, and Right.

  [00:17:02] But also went to predominantly, I went to two, you know, three predominantly black schools in my life. You know, I, you know, I went to one elementary school that was my junior high school was predominantly black, so it was a culture predominantly black. So I had a huge culture shock that no one.

  [00:17:21] Oh,

  [00:17:21] wow. Yeah.

  [00:17:22] That was, that was very difficult and strange, you know? And, and, and so trying, being a young adult, trying to find my voice, you know?

  [00:17:29] , when I was 19, it was on Christmas break. Yeah. You know and I started getting to the habit of kind of like sneaking my mom's car, like out the driveway. You know, and, and driving around, you know? Got it. Like really just cruising around.

  [00:17:43] One of my friends wanted to cruise around, right. So one night, you know, I get the car as I'm about to get the car, like my friends like, Hey man, I need, I need a ride across town, you know? So I pick em up, my best friend mm-hmm. , but then on the way, we see a couple other people that we knew, some boys that I knew, but they also had somebody else with them that we really didn't know, you know, like that.

  [00:18:05] And then they had some driving and things start to happen, you know, eventually, you know, they basically said, pull over, and they decided to rob gas station. And the Robby went wrong and someone wanted to get shot, you know, and they ran to the car and was like, well, we gotta go shot, you know?

  [00:18:27] And, and now I'm thrusting to this situation. And, and that was, that was very, very difficult. It was a very long, stressful, legal situation that I had to endure and had to drop outta school. And I mean, it was, it was, it was really bad. I actually getting kind of teed, I just thinking about it, but oh, this is, this is real, this is, this is real.

  [00:18:51] So yeah, after, after, after all that happened and my mom was just in my corner, I just went back to school and

  [00:19:01] Azhelle Wade: I was How, how long did you have to drop out

  [00:19:04] David Vonner: for? For about three years. Almost three years. Oh. And then after that, man, I was just super focused, like super focused. Like nothing was stopping me at that point, nothing.

  [00:19:18] And and then I graduated and then all of a sudden there was an ad in the paper where Spencer Gifts and their home office was in my area. Mm-hmm. and everything that was in my portfolio, I just, I just took everything that was in my portfolio and threw it out and I redid it over the weekend.

  [00:19:39] Of everything that I thought Spencer's was about. And then I went in for the interview. I had a, I had a job that was like, you know, two sizes too big and I wound up getting a job.

  [00:19:55] Azhelle Wade: So, wait, tell me you're really emotional right now. Yeah. Why are you so emotional? Let's talk through it.

  [00:20:00] David Vonner: Well, well because well, because that was a really, really tough time in my life. Like mm-hmm. , that was the first time, and really the only time, but the real major time that I felt like I dis I disappointed my mom, you know? Oh man. So that just drove me. It just drove me. Mm-hmm. to know when, you know, and, and so I had no op, I had no further options.

  [00:20:29] You know, I had no options. So like,

  [00:20:30] you saw this Spencer's ad as like the job, like it was one of those moments where you saw it and you knew this is mine. And you were like, well, that was like, you already, you saw your portfolio. You were like, my, this is not. This, I gotta redo this whole thing.

  [00:20:44] That was my, that was like, that was my eight mile moment.

  [00:20:48] That was, that was everything, you know, because I just wanted the shot, you know, I just wanted the shot, you know, just, just, and then you get in what happens, yo, and that was, it was a dream come true after that. Yeah, it was dream true after that. Now mind you, now I'm putting all this pressure on myself.

  [00:21:09] You know, my mom, my mom has always been a hundred percent of my corner. But that was just what I've put onto myself, and this is why I'm emotional about it. Like, it still, it's still twice me because I know how right, how easily this can be taken away just by circumstances where you don't even realize where they can lead to, you know?

  [00:21:31] So, and I, I just wanted to, I just wanted to do so much for my mom, my family. It was like, it was like you know, the NBA or the NFL for me. Like I really took it that serious and still do. How

  [00:21:47] Azhelle Wade: did you get there? How did you, before, so like, here's the thing, there's a lot of people out there that applied for jobs.

  [00:21:53] They can't even see what you saw. Like you saw as hard as you were. On your portfolio. Yeah. You saw it as not good enough to guarantee this job and you said, I'm gonna redo this portfolio this weekend cause I need to guarantee this job. How did you see that? Like what allowed you to know it wasn't enough and you could do more?

  [00:22:14] You had the ability to do more.

  [00:22:16] David Vonner: When I saw that ad, and I, and it just was, everything was just kind of within me. Like the fire really started, I really didn't think of failure, you know, and, and in a, in a real way, . I mean, it was like I went into a trance, you know, and, and with, with the idea that failure just isn't an option. I didn't even think of it. Right. I mean, I didn't think that I wasn't gonna get the job.

  [00:22:43] I just hope that I would. Huh. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like, I just, I just put, I just put the hope in out, like the force, you know what I mean? Like, like Star Wars, A new hope, like that was it. Yeah. You know, I just, I just, I just, I just really did, and it was so wild because when I went on the interview, I started seeing, I, you know, I started going on a few interviews, like trying to get like advertising positions, like graphic design positions and stuff.

  [00:23:12] And I started seeing, I started seeing this guy all the time, either before the interview, either before my interview or after my interview, I would see the same guy over and over again. Mm-hmm. . And it was like we we're clearly aiming for the same spot, clearly. Oh wow. Like, we're clearly aiming for the same, for the same thing.

  [00:23:35] It just seemed like he was just a little bit more polished than me because I was, this was me just venturing out, you know? So he never knew it. But I was watching that guy, like I was, I, whenever I would get a peak of how he would dress or I would overhear how he would speak.

  [00:23:54] Cause I never, I could never, I could never hear the portfolio. I could never get to the portfolio. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I was like, I wanna know the game, you know? So I was just real observant, and I just so happened to start seeing this guy and I was like, I wanna mimic that flow. Like, like a, like a rapper.

  [00:24:15] Like I wanna mimic that, right? That he never knew. But I was like, with the intent of uh, eventually I'm gonna dunk on this guy, you know, , so, Like, it was just, in my mind, it was like, it was like Kobe Bryant, you know, like coming to the league and, and playing Jordan is like, yo, somehow some way, I mean, this dude is my idol somehow, some way I'm scoring on you, like I'm scoring on you.

  [00:24:36] I'm gonna score in the, in the most ridiculous way, and I might have one shot to do, but I'm going to do it. I just gotta be patient. Right? Yeah. So, yeah, when I, when, when I came to Spencer's, like, that was the time and I, and he was coming out of the interview and that was the first time that I noticed him noticing me.

  [00:24:56] Oh, okay. You know what I'm saying? So, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, and, and I came in after him and Right. And that either consciously or subconsciously just put a battery in my back, you know? And I was like, I'm gonna sell myself. I'm gonna sell myself Wow. The best way I can. Wow. And I got the job,

  [00:25:24] Azhelle Wade: Tell me how did your. Explode after Spencer's guess or what happened? Wow.

  [00:25:28] David Vonner: I'm telling you, it's a series of amazing events. Okay. So I've go with Spencer's, I get, I get the job and the, the vice president, it was two vice presidents and.

  [00:25:40] John Gas and Jerry Hertz, you know, Jerry was a female, John is a man. Mm-hmm. , and they're much older. And John was like, you know, you came in here, it's too big, raw, but you know, I love it. So get to work. And I come in there and the first thing I'm doing is I'm designing the Elvis clock. That was my first project.

  [00:26:00] And so like, I'm, I'm like, by this time I'm like 24 years old and I also had a baby, you know what I'm saying? I had a family. Oh my

  [00:26:07] Azhelle Wade: gosh. I was married. Really?

  [00:26:09] David Vonner: So there, there was like a lot stacked because like when I went back to school, my fiancee was pregnant. And then, and check this out. When, during my portfolio review, when it's time for me to graduate, because I was also working, I was working the night shift at the casino in Atlantic City. And then after the night shift, working all night long, I'll get on the train. Okay.

  [00:26:29] They on the train from Atlantic City to Philly, and then I'll do my work. So I'll be up in there smelling like cigarettes, smell like the casino in my casino uniform. Oh my gosh. In class. Oh my gosh. Right. When my daughter McKayla was born and it was, she was like a few months old and I had to do my portfolio view, my portfolio review in order to graduate school.

  [00:26:52] I had her strapped to my chest and I had my portfolio. I went to every teacher and I was like, this is who you're doing this for if you failing. Oh my gosh, yo, for real? I said, if you fail me, you failing her. Don't fail her.

  [00:27:09] Azhelle Wade: But I guess she passed. I guess you passed.

  [00:27:12] David Vonner: And I, I mean, but it sounds h. But I mean, that's how I sold it.

  [00:27:17] I mean, I'm like, yo, this is, this is how much I need this. Like I need this. And so then I wind up graduating but, but then, but then you know, so I get to, I get the Spencers and I get hired and Spencers

  [00:27:31] they never had their own design team, never had a, you never, never, never. So they hired my boss, who, who was, you know, my design director and they hired me as product director. And the department was created after that. So I was the first product designer of Spencer GIS product development department ever hired.

  [00:27:54] And the first thing I do is this Elvis clock. And they thought that because I was young and black, that I probably didn't know who Elvis was. . Oh. Little did they know. Little did they know. like everything that people think can assume about me, little do they know is, is more times is, is 180 degree opposite, you know?

  [00:28:17] And, and so I was like, yeah, I know Elvis. You know, I mean, my grandmother couldn't stand him for other reasons, you know, but he was always, you know, in my life and I was actually a big Elvis fan, you know, he was like, really the first documentaries that I could see that I actually was like, wow, what is this?

  [00:28:36] It's a documentary and this is about this guy. You know what I mean? So, and the Beatles and down to the sixties and all this stuff. So I'm designing Elvis, and then that week, what I'm designing all this stuff for, we had a meeting and we had a meeting with Priscilla Presley, you know, and what?

  [00:28:55] Yeah, she was coming down. Okay. She's head of as a state. So now it's like, not only I so cool, not only I doing this creative stuff, but now I'm starting to understand the business of this.

  [00:29:08] So, and then I get in there and I, and I, and I'm in the meeting, you know, we're presenting to her and I'm like, yo, this, this is, this is on another level, you know, cuz this is a school me. Right. You know what I mean? And, and this is also literally coming out of the mag era, you know, so computers was a new thing.

  [00:29:29] I was still doing marker renders, you know? Oh my gosh. So, okay. You know, know Photoshop, I was the only one in the building that had it, cuz I was the only one that knew how to use it. And we talking about Photoshops, right? We talking about Photoshop three, right. Ever

  [00:29:47] Azhelle Wade: used that ? I don't know if I ever used Photoshop three.

  [00:29:51] Yeah. Oh

  [00:29:52] David Vonner: man. I remember when Photoshop four came out, it was a big, actually when Photoshop Ford came out, it was such a big deal because I was the only one in the building that had it, other than like our photographer, but he only did like basic, basic, basic stuff like scanning.

  [00:30:11] It was like, I was looked at as like, you know, this is like a G Genius. Yeah. Like, like, and I, and I genius and I never, never have been viewed like that, right? Cause I told you about gifted and talent, I wasn't a part of that. So that gave me like this level of confidence that I never experienced that

  [00:30:33] Azhelle Wade: you probably.

  [00:30:34] Or maybe you did, but only with your family when you had the her come around you, right.

  [00:30:39] David Vonner: Right. Mm-hmm. . So in Spencer's, everyone came around me like I herd. Mm-hmm. , you know, like mm-hmm. , at least like, that's how I felt like my cube was real small. Yeah. You know, it was actually a closet cube that was convert to a cube.

  [00:30:53] They set it up for me. I had my drawing table in there, my computer and everything. And I like, I don't care. It works. And they gave me a lava lamp, like everyone gets a lava lamp, you know? And then I had, I had a disco light in there. I had all my stuff. Oh, that's amazing. So fun. So everyone would come around like, what is going on over here?

  [00:31:11] And I was just, I mean, I turned it into my room. I turned it, I turned it into my room, you know? So now it was like, you know, I mean, I'm doing what I would do anyway. I literally sitting in my room drawing 8, 10, 12 hours a day, and now I can do this and get paid for it, you know? And when I got, and when I got, when I got hired, I was, I was making $25,000 a year, but I thought I hit the jet.

  [00:31:38] But how the toy things really came about was we were working on Kiss the Kiss reunion tour and you know, and one of my, one of my idols at the time to crawling, you know, changed the game, but action figure. And he was doing kiss, you know, and Spencers was one of the, not only sponsors of Couture, but we also doing product.

  [00:31:59] We were working with Jean Simmons. Like Jean Simmons was actually talking to me, yelling at me about stuff. I'm like, this is so dope. So then what happened was, not only was McFarland doing that, but it was a new company called Art Asylum that just came out and it was by this new dude, this young guy named Digger Mesh.

  [00:32:18] And I had just read about Digger in In Action Figure Digest and in Toy Fair Magazine, and he was just Marvel sculptor. He was changing the game of what he thought action figures should be like. Look at that art, you know? Mm-hmm. , not just McFarland style or having a dope sculpt and it's a statue, but actually making an dope sculpt that you could move around and play with.

  [00:32:40] Okay. Yeah. So he did this giant kiss figure. They were amazing, amazing. And, and I was just in awe. And then he, and after I read about him in In Wizard in Toy Fair Magazine and actually Figured Digest Magazine, he came down to Spencers for a giant meeting, and I wanted to meet him so bad, but I wasn't allowed at this time to get into the meeting.

  [00:33:06] You know, I had to do a whole bunch of stuff for Ozzie Osborne, and at the time, Sharon Osborne. It was kind of like cold, like kind of helping out with the kids reunion tour, and they were getting all the stuff ready for Ozzie. They, they kind of groom getting Ozzie ready. Eventually they did the Oest tour eventually, like the Osborn Show came out of that and we were all working together, you know.

  [00:33:30] And so actually at the reunion tour I saw Ozzie Osborn of his kids. They were little backstage then. Oh. And, and so when I wasn't allowed to go into the meeting, so I was drawing, I was just into it, you know, I had my music on and everything and I was drawing an Ozzie Osborne crazy train in St.

  [00:33:51] Bernard. Cause we were, I had to do product based off of Ozzie Osborne's lyrics. Well digger, well digger wind up leaving the meeting and he was like, yo, I want to meet your, your designers. So they took him upstairs and it was just me,

  [00:34:09] Azhelle Wade: just you I know. I was like, your designers,

  [00:34:12] David Vonner: right? I was right. I'm the only designing staff this my boss.

  [00:34:15] So they just thinking, take my crawl and David is right. And like, our area was dark. We had in line area had posters and Halloween and stuff. It was dope. It was just amazing. And and j came up there and I turned, and the first thing I, the first thing I noticed was his cologne. And I could smell it. My back was turned.

  [00:34:35] I was in my cube, but I could smell a scent that wasn't in that area. And then I heard a voice. Mm-hmm. , right? So I, at my computer, and you know how people be in the cube and they, they do this here, right? You know, they, they, they popped they head, they rolled the chair out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I did that and I heard this voice that I never heard before, and I looked and I see this dude from behind and I'm staring at him, and then I see the, the side of his face.

  [00:34:59] I'm like, that's digging. And I just got up, you know, I got up and I, and I was literally just reading about this guy, so, oh my gosh. So the head of marketing is like, Hey, and this is David Va, you know, he's our product designer. Mm-hmm. , you know, he's working on kiss and you know, he did the, the, the KISS dolls and I take gobbles and, and and slippers and stuff, like house slippers.

  [00:35:24] And he was like, yo, man, what's going on? And, and he just shook my hand and gave me the, you know, the, the pound and the hug. And I'm telling you, I felt like I was hugging Jack Herby or Steve Dick Cole, you know, I was like, because he made such a profound impact on me. So then he was like, yo, man, what's up?

  [00:35:46] What you working on? And I was like, So I took him to my desk and he's like, you know what it this? I'm like you know, it is crazy train. And he was like, yo, and I did it. The style that I did in it was almost like graffiti, so it looked like the sole train, train, you know, but with like horror elements to it, right?

  [00:36:07] And he was like, man, this is crazy. He's like, you did this? And I was like, yeah, man, you know? And I was kind of walking him through and he was like, look man. And, and I show in the magazines, like, and I, I was like, just straight up. I was like, yo, man. Like I was just, I was, you know, reading about you man. You are so, you are such an inspiration to me, man.

  [00:36:25] Like, thank you for everything that you're doing. And he was just like, on some straight friend, he was just on a straight up friend tip. But we was just talking and he was like, look man, anytime you wanna come up to Brooklyn, I got you. You know? I mean, he was like, you got the skills. I got this company, man.

  [00:36:45] You wanna come up? I got you. Just, just gimme the word. by him saying that, it was such a validation, like I felt validated. Like I felt like I'm being Yeah, of course. So then after that, you know, I was like, I felt so, I felt, yo, I felt so happy. But also I felt like, yeah, the Jersey and me kicked in and I was like, you know, after he left, I never said it to him until later years later, but I was like, I'm not even gonna take him up in this office.

  [00:37:17] You know, I'm gonna work on this on my own to get to that level. Like you, cause that's the ease. Why? What do you mean? Yo, I just felt like if I, if I made the call and came in, I just felt like it was too easy to do. So. Wow. When I was at Spencer's, I really started to work on doing explosive, explosive, explosive views, like door turns and explosive views and all that, throw them out and all that.

  [00:37:44] Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . So then I was like, look, then I came to know with a proposal, and again, like I told you, I was making $25,000 a year. I had a family, daughter, wife, and you just bought a new starter home and all that. And then by this time I'm making like, you know, 27,000 and I'm like, look, if you, if you guys pay me just, just $5,000 more a year.

  [00:38:06] Mm-hmm. , just gimme five grand or more. Cause again, like I didn't, where I lived at was like, you know, literally around a corner. It was the same neighborhood. I knew everyone. I was comfortable, but like, you just pay me $5,000 more, you know, I'll stay here and give you my all. Mm-hmm. or I gotta go. And they were like basically artists coming down a dozen.

  [00:38:27] You gotta do what you gotta do. So I wound up leaving and I left. I got, I you I started working at a, at a preschool toy company called Shell Pour Toys. Okay. So immediately I started, I was designing Kiss Marilyn Manson, Ozi Osborn, queen Jason, like five 13, Halloween, all that stuff.

  [00:38:48] Mm-hmm. to doing baby rattlers and, and and little baby phones and little baby card. I have to change my whole style up. But what I, with the people when I went there, because it was a toy company, like they were a toy company. You know, so, right. I'll look that as man, like Spencers was doing. Like I, I was the product guy, and I was trying to get them to do action figures, but they didn't want, do they just want a big product, which in hindsight it made me more, more vast and more diverse. So I left Spencer's and I started working at She Port. Cause I wanted to get the toy design experience. I actually know what it is to actually develop a tool. And then, right. I lasted there for three months. It was a box on my desk I had to go. They had layoffs.

  [00:39:36] It was in November. I'll never forget it. It was November going into December. And then it was an ad in the paper. There was a company in New York the before design, a toy designer. , it was very discreet. And then they gave the address to where it was, I figured out the address. I looked it up and like I had to, had to go like in encyclopedia, you know, and like go to the library, the phone book.

  [00:40:04] It wasn't the internet, the phone, but I do all this stuff. Oh my. It was a New York. I didn't have a New York phone book. You know, I'm in South Jersey. I didn't have a New York phone. , you know what I'm saying? It was very difficult to reach out to someone.

  [00:40:18] A hobby was actually, whenever you went to another state, you pulled out the phone book and just looked through it, just see the names. So what I had to do, I finally found out that this was Marvel and I went there for the, when I went up for the, the interview, I found out that they, well, the, the person in hr, Mary Sprouse called me and said they had moved.

  [00:40:41] She gave me the address, but I, I misplaced the address. I wrote it down. So I misplaced it. I didn't have it with me when I went on the bus to go to New York for the interview. Oh my God. So I was like, I came all this way and now I can't find where, where Marble is. Right. So I looked to my right and it was a new stand right outside of the Port Authority.

  [00:41:08] I went to the news stand. I picked up a Marvel comic book, and I looked, opened it up and saw the address, their new address. And I walked to the Mar building. Oh, I, yeah. And I had my interview and then I had my second interview, third interview. I had to keep coming back up to New York. Wow. Yeah.

  [00:41:26] And eventually I got the job. When I got the job, marble just got out of bankruptcy. Like they literally just, you know, got out the bankruptcy. Joe Asada was, was just, just being brought on board As the editor in Chief and I was, had an interview. we had our orientation together and, and we were brought in to basically bring Marvel out of them up.

  [00:41:51] And the entity that brought Marvel Toy Bis owned by brother, you know, you own Toy Bis. So therefore Toy Bis became the owner of Marvel. So like we, the toy guys had an immediate voice in the creative process, which is why hindsight being 2020, you can really see where Marvel is. It every movie is play to.

  [00:42:18] The toys are verbal of entertainment, just like a comic book is just like a cartoonist. Like, listen. Mm-hmm. , listen, actually hold it as, as that, as such as entertainment. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's how it was. And we were given like just free reign. And it's so funny that giant kiss doll that digger did, that wound up being the inspiration behind the build a figure that wound up being the inspiration behind the giant size, amazing Spiderman that had crazy amounts of articulation actually became the genesis of those things because it was so big and groundbreaking at the time.

  [00:42:54] It was like, yo, how do we do this? We can't afford to do it, but maybe we bust it up, break, break it up, and have a figure, come with a leg, you know, and have a figure come with an arm. I mean, all this stuff was like, we were all just feeding off of each other, you know? And we were just having fun.

  [00:43:10] We were young just doing what we loved to do and spending hours doing it,

  [00:43:16] Azhelle Wade: How long were you with Marvel?

  [00:43:18] David Vonner: I was there for about five, six years. And then, when I left there, my grandmother died and that, that took me to a real big tailspin, you know, when my grandmother died.

  [00:43:26] Mm. That's which was very unexpected cuz for a long period of time, you know, no one in my family had died. Like everyone was around prior to that. You know, again, like I said, I was only child for a long time. Right. And everyone was pretty young and healthy.

  [00:43:42] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. And your parents were young. Yeah. Your parents were super

  [00:43:45] David Vonner: young, so they were in their twenties, you know, so everyone was pretty healthy, you know, and around and vivacious, you know.

  [00:43:53] And so my grandmother died. That was really, took me through a unexpected tailspin and which, and I had to understand about life, which life can just, especially when you're a creative, you know, because we feed off of emotion. I mean we do mm-hmm. . And when life sends you through that tailspin, it can really throw your creative process into it really can't Interest.

  [00:44:18] You know? Mm-hmm. . So that's what happened. So I had to, you know, I took a leave in Rams and I, I wanted to leave, and, you know, I had to leave. It was just, I, I just wasn't good for anybody, you know? And also too, like the commute was really just drain, like, you know, for years.

  [00:44:34] Yeah. And I, you know, and even after that, you know, you know, I commuted like from Land City to Philly, 52 miles, you know, Philly, Atlantic City to New York, 200 miles. I would drive these places to drive daily, like, boy, catch train. So that wears on you after years of doing. Yeah. And that's kind of like also what happened.

  [00:44:56] So I could take a break, and then I started, and then I got hired at a company called tucking Toys. And at Tucking Toys, we did the flat ball. We created the flat ball. And the flat ball is a ball that can flatten into a Frisbee. You can throw it uhhuh, like a Frisbee, and then it pops back into a ball, right? So it was like a, it's a toy Toy, which I love, like, I love toys like that whole. Fact, the magic trick. I love that. So I'm, I'm there, you know, doing that. And then I get a call about a position at Hasbro about Marvel, and I thought it was a prank. I thought it was actually Jesse Fcon.

  [00:45:34] Why do you think it was a prank? Because I, because that's the prank that we did at Marvel, and I thought it was just Falcon at Marvel, who is the director. He's actually, you know, the director over at Disney now overseeing all the Marvel booth with real good. He's like my brother, but I thought he was playing a prank on me.

  [00:45:50] You know what I, and so I hung up on him. I actually hung up on, oh my God. On the, on the Haswell recruited. So then they called, that is hilarious. They call me Bat and they were like, Hey, we've been really want to contact, we really talk to you. We'll fly you up to Rhode Island, you know, and just, we need your Marvel experience cuz we, we are going to acquire the Marvel license.

  [00:46:11] And I was like, wow. But they couldn't hire anyone from Marvel, you know, who was actually there. And that wound up being a blessing when I left, you know, it was like, I kind of looked at it as my grandmother in death. She blessed me. Like even though it was a tough time, the blessing that came out of that was now I go to Hasbro and now I'm part of the Marvel team where I got to bring forth the Marvel team.

  [00:46:38] I gotta develop the Marvel team now, you know? Right, right. And I'm also like a conduit. I'm the conduit between Hasbro and Marvel now. So I'm the main communicator. I'm the only one that Marvel that knows these guys. I know them intimately. Yeah. So, It was almost like being the kid in, in the, the two parents who were divorced or the messed up parents, but you're the kid in the middle and you've gotta like play telephone between the two for a period of time.

  [00:47:04] That was my role. Like I had to basically interpret what. The feelings and, and the words meant from these doctors at the time. No one, they began to quickly not trust each other, you know? Oh, interesting. And, and um, so, but, but it, it trusted me in this position where now, but also too, I also have to educate the people at HaBO about Marvel.

  [00:47:29] And that's what the trust gave me. Cuz Marvel just felt like the people at HaBO really didn't have, like, there weren't no Marvel fans there, you know what I mean? And, and mm-hmm. like these guys grew up on GI Joe and Star Wars. Like, they didn't, they weren't Marvel fans like that. And, and Haswell never created any Marvel product in the type of Marvel product like Marvel Legends that was coming out at that time.

  [00:47:52] The fans were furious. They were furious. They were like, they going to Hasbro our toy stuff and they're gonna ruin it. So it was a lot of this collective community that started bubbling, like the YouTube community and the chat groups and forums and everything. These things started bubble up, which is like, now we have social media, but back then it was very much siloed, you know, and social media was a very small thing now, but it is becoming this, this place where you could be the bullhorn and voice your opinion.

  [00:48:23] And that's the thing that also started to. Pop up with Marvel Legends. So when Haswell got it, I had to educate everyone on, on not only, you know, the Marvel way, but why the Marvel way is important, you know? and I really took pride in that, you know, it gave me a, a, you know, a world that you couldn't put a title on.

  [00:48:45] Like I became the expert, you know. Anybody, any, any, any question that anyone had about Marvel law or history or the dynamic? It always, it came through me and that was, I, I held that in such high regard and it made me want us to win even more, you know, because of the dynamic. What has won Marvel and Marvel being a new brand?

  [00:49:09] You know, it was really treat. , you know, star Wars was number one, transformers was number one at asthma. Like they had their own brands. Right? Now you got this brand that, that you rent and some individuals kind of, some individual individuals throw over is not getting the proper attention that it deserves next to Transformers, GI Joe and all the other stuff, star everything.

  [00:49:35] So, but, but you know, I was Team Hasbro slash Team Marvel slash Team Marvel slash Team Hasbro, you know what I mean? Like, I wanted, I wanted us to be in unison. I wanted us to win, but of course my love, my love, my intimate love of Marvel is what, you know, fueled the engine. And then that gave me the opportunity.

  [00:50:00] Not only was I developing the Marvel team, like helping to develop and guide them and we putting our brains together, but I'm also working with the Star Wars team and I'm working with Mark Bre, like one of the most famous star learning a lot. I, I'm learning everything. And that was the main thing that I've always, the one thing that the people in my family told me, who, when they realized they could not carry me anymore, that I was going into different meetings and rooms and worlds where they no longer were, the only thing they let me was.

  [00:50:31] Be a sponge. Learn as much as you can if you need, if you feel compelled to say something, be quiet. If you're getting yelled at, you're getting chastised. Take it and absorb it. You're gonna learn any, every use this entire thing as a learning experience. And that's what I did. I just became this a sponge.

  [00:50:52] And when I got the opportunity to squeeze all that stuff out, oh man. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . It was magic. Well, yeah.

  [00:51:02] Azhelle Wade: Let's, let's jump to that. Is that, what would you call that, that's when you started Vonner Studios?

  [00:51:07] David Vonner: In my mind, you know, because honestly when I worked at Marvel, when I worked at Hasbro on the Marvel team, I looked at it as, I looked at it as, this is me working for the two entities.

  [00:51:20] So after, after Hasbro, you know, when we had layoffs of that, it was totally unexpected. It was mm-hmm. that was earth shattering and oh man, I was down. But then like, Ja down in Florida opened up, they called me down and I flew down there. So now I'm commuting from Florida to Rhode Island.

  [00:51:38] I'm working down in Florida during the week and fly back on the weekends. So then within there, we're working, you know, HBAR, the Odeon, like another aspect of my childhood that I want work on, you know, and or there will be a product of, you know, space goes and, you know, hey, on how space goes

  [00:51:55] Azhelle Wade: and all that stuff.

  [00:51:56] Now you get into my time. Now you're get into

  [00:51:57] David Vonner: my time. Okay. Yeah. Rug, like you designed rug stuff. Lot of rug stuff. Hey, ar that whole Nickelodean slot, you know, was doing adventure time, you wind doing it like l. , and then when I started to work on that, and then actually, you know, be in that capacity down in Florida, you know, and, and, and actually at Haswell the sense of teaching and mentoring became more of a bubbling thing for me.

  [00:52:29] You know, because Okay. You know, because now in the corporate world, now you, you're tasked with having interns, like cynical, like at certain times you're gonna have interns, or there may be some, a kid in the urban community program, of course, if it's in the urban community program and the corporate entity, they're gonna send it to the urban people, right?

  [00:52:47] I have interns, one of 'em is headed consumer products over at Netflix, you know?

  [00:52:52] Wow. Another intern started his own business, his own toy company.

  [00:52:57] Like I really, I started to enjoy that like kind of dealing with creative minds more so than being a creative mind,

  [00:53:06] because now it's like when you're dealing with creative minds and you already have a creative mind yourself, you can speak their language, you can really gauge like from a standpoint of true experience and vision. . You can kind of see beyond the box, see beyond the, the, now you can see yo with the proper steps, the guidance, and we could do something special here, like you got it in. I'm in Florida and things happened, then all of a sudden now come to the west coast.

  [00:53:36] You know, I come to the west coast now I'm working at Spin mastering, you know, and again, I'm, I'm working with a bunch of, even young guys, younger guys over here on the west coast. So now it's like, mm-hmm . Now it's taking on a whole different culture. And like, some of these guys are totally different style, but like, but they also coming to me for guidance.

  [00:53:57] You know, it's like they, they can do, they can draw, paint, print, whatever, but they coming to me for guidance and I started to really appreciate that. So honored about that. I really started to enjoy that. And then wow, you know, Mattel comes to mind, you know, so maybe this I'm at, I'm at Mattel working on, and I really wanted at Mattel. So I'll give you a serious, truncated version, but at Mattel, Mattel was something that I was always interested in because number one, Mattel did a bunch of the toys that I grew up on from back in the day.

  [00:54:29] Mm-hmm. , I loved them. Particularly like Heman and, you know, the old school electronic football games and just everything just synonymous with, with, with, you know, being a kid, but also too at that, Mattel had the DC license, and I really, really wanted to work on DC just being a comfortable fan and making my bones in Marvel.

  [00:54:49] And I really wanted to bring I kind of felt that I could see something in DC that was lacking and maybe if I just was given the opportunity, maybe I could just, just kind of turn it on his ear a little bit. You know what I mean?

  [00:55:04] But that didn't happen. I wound up being on the WWE team, which was absolutely amazing, because now it's like, I've always had to deal with fantastical people. Now I have to deal with real life action heroes, like real life superheroes that do these amazing things, but also the outcome is real. Like, they get injured, they get hurt, right?

  [00:55:27] They die, you know, if life comes into play, you gotta be nimble to, to make that line work. And also, they have a movie, literally, like a, a WWE is like multiple storylines, multiple stock operas, multiple forms of entertainment, really within the show. Like the Theater of the Mind. It's like having a movie, you know, three movies a week, every week, you know?

  [00:55:52] And you gotta sync up product with that sync up product, with the story, sync up product with the talent.

  [00:55:59] So I wound up get laid off at Mattel. Mm-hmm. and then. I got really tired of getting laid off because. You know, layoffs are very just, it's a, the whole thing is just bad.

  [00:56:12] I mean, on both sides it's a very unproductive thing. Yeah. Everyone is afraid. Everyone is in fear. Your, your business is put on front street. These people that you work so intimately with, certainly hours and sometimes more than your family for large amounts of time, large length of time, someone else decides that that's over.

  [00:56:30] And you gotta do like the walk of shame, you know? And that could do a lot to your psyche, which is one reason why a lot of people, they don't want to deal with that. They don't want to deal that. So a lot of people in the toilet street wind up go this thing different entirely, you know? And so, and that had, that has had an effect on me in various ways in my family, you know?

  [00:56:52] And I got tired of that. I mean, I really did get tired of that, of that mental stress, that physical stress, the emotional stress, the,

  [00:57:02] Azhelle Wade: I remember it was just like a time of the year at one of the companies I worked for, and I remember people saying, oof, it's layoff season. Get ready. And I was

  [00:57:09] David Vonner: just like, yeah.

  [00:57:10] , like, what do you mean? Right. See people not in the toy industry, they think that, they think that Christmas time is the busiest, most fun part of the year. Right? Right. Yes. Because you're doing everything in advance, you know, Christmas. Yeah. The

  [00:57:25] Azhelle Wade: money. I mean, yeah, we get our sales. Like the sales for sales, we're not, but Yeah.

  [00:57:29] But we're not doing it .

  [00:57:30] David Vonner: Anything. But what happens, what tends that happens is layoffs historically, always around the holiday

  [00:57:36] Azhelle Wade: season. Yep. It's the worst time. Like it's the worst

  [00:57:40] David Vonner: like time going on. Like it's like

  [00:57:43] Azhelle Wade: cuz basically. Yeah. Basically it's holiday season. You're sitting there thinking, oh, I'm about to get a bonus, end of year bonus .

  [00:57:52] David Vonner: So not, you don't have a job. So like between November, between like the month of November and January or November and February. Yeah. There's this level of stress that kind of Yeah. Was happening. Particularly at Hasbro. I know a guy that he was so keen into knowing when the layoffs were happening and he so it, it messed him up mentally when he got laid off before that he was brought back.

  [00:58:22] It messed him up so bad that he would always take the day off or a few days off whenever the layoffs were either about to happen when you got wind of it, or when they did happen, you would take days off. You didn't want to be a part of his mind. Like, I want, I, I want to be home when the ball drops.

  [00:58:40] You know, it's hard when you leave to go to work, when you do your routine, you get your coffee, you take your kids to daycare, you do all this stuff, you, you driving to work and then you find out that's your last day. Mm. And then you gotta drive back home in the middle of the day.

  [00:58:56] And, and when the home life picks up, when the kids come back from school, the spouse come back from work and they see you with the expectation of, hey, like this is, this is a normal day. What's not a normal

  [00:59:12] Azhelle Wade: day? Oh gosh. I've never even thought of that. I luckily haven't been laid off.

  [00:59:16] Like the only time I got laid off, I guess, was when toys were shut down. But luckily it wasn't like they brought us into a meeting and it wasn't like everyone leaves today. It was like they brought us into a meeting and we have two months. And so,

  [00:59:30] David Vonner: yeah. I mean, sometimes deal with it and was, see when, when you are a designer, you gotta leave that date

  [00:59:37] yeah. Because basically yeah, they view, they view an artist as a human recorder. Yes. So now at that, at that moment now, because you are the one that can take viable information, now you're considered immediately almost like the

  [00:59:53] Azhelle Wade: a problem. It's so true. I, one company, I. Left. I was going, I wanted to stay at that company and I was like, Hey, can you guys gimme a raise?

  [01:00:02] And they said no. And I said, well, okay, I'm gonna get another job. So I found another job and I came to them and I was like, I'm leaving putting in my two weeks. And they were like, where are you going? And I didn't wanna tell them, not because it was a competitor, just because I was making so much more money.

  [01:00:17] I didn't want them to contact them . I didn't want like any problems. I didn't want them to tell 'em, you know, Shirley makes this here, right? Like, I want no problems. Yeah. Yeah. So I didn't tell them. And then when I got back to my desk, they had locked me out. ? Yes. They were like, they were like, we'll be escorting you outside.

  [01:00:36] I was like, oh, okay. I

  [01:00:38] David Vonner: mean, I was like, now, now, now. See for me, for me, man, like I tell you, like for me, that that hit different in a very personal way. And I had to, yeah, I had to put on a very happy face, particularly at Hasbro clothes. Yeah. You know, when you have to be escorted out by security.

  [01:00:57] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. It feels

  [01:00:59] David Vonner: bad.

  [01:01:00] And I, you know, with me, with situations like that, like I, I, in sense of my history of being arrested, my history with. With courtrooms, you know, like just being a black man in America. I mean, like, I've been, you know, I, I've had situations when I was in legal trouble and my court dates got mixed around and, and no one had word that my court date was mixed.

  [01:01:26] I've been arrested at home when there was bench warrants for my arrest. So, and when that happens, when a bench warrant is issued, you, you, they come into your house, they come into you wherever you, wherever you're dwelling and they escort you. And what made it even worse was my, the guys who was, you know, enforcing the bench warrant was my old high school drum captain who had so much potential, you know, for me.

  [01:01:56] You know. And so it was at this multiple level of letting people down. So now I'm being escorted this kind of way at the, at, at Hasbro, at a toy company. I was so through, yes. But I had to put on a happy face because I knew I was being looked at. So, I mean, there, I mean there were people in tears crying.

  [01:02:15] Yeah, I, of course, male female. And I'm walking by people like, yo man, look, let's go get Margarita. Cause we all go to this, this place called Azteca for lunch. It's like, yo, I'm getting a double, Barbara Rita, who's with me? I'm getting my drinks. Yeah. You know, you said that all, yeah. Yeah, I, I swear like a couple guys start their own toy company, you know, they had their head down was crying.

  [01:02:35] I was like, man, lemme tell you something man, wow. You contribute too much for these people to, to walk outta here like this. So you sit here, cry, get it out and then after that you wipe your face, you blow your nose, you get your stuff, you walk out here with your head up cuz you will be doing this again.

  [01:02:54] They're not gonna stop you from being you. They're not gonna stop that cause the damn are not gonna stop me from being me. So that was how I was when I was walking out. And matter of fact, cuz you go into this room, it was a guy in there, I won't mention his name, but he's with the HR and, and you know, you know, he basically has a script and he says, you know, due to certain circumstances, blah, blah, blah. Just a whole script. He couldn't even look at me. He's reading the. The HR person's kind of like looking down and I'm like, yo, y'all gotta do this all day today. Like, this is what you have to do today. Then they, and so I was like, yo, this sucks to be you, my man. Cause I'm right now, I'm getting out here, I'm getting a drink and I'm gonna let this, this is not gonna be part of my day. I'm not gonna let this get me down, even though it did. But I not gonna let them see that.

  [01:03:44] I hope what's happening to us right now doesn't happen to. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I shook his hand and I, and I left, you know, and I, I walked out here like George Jefferson, you know, with a, with a strut and a pep of my step.

  [01:04:00] Right. With confidence. Right. Because even though I was broken, I was breaking inside and I had no idea what was gonna happen next. I was gonna tell my wife what, I had no idea what was gonna happen. I never, I knew, I never thought about that part. Yeah. I just, I just knew that I was not going to allow these people to break me.

  [01:04:20] You know, I, I love Hasbro. These people, I don't know, and they gotta execute something. What I know of Hasbro, what I know of Hasbro, that's something that no one can ever take away from, you know? Right. But these people gotta do their, their job, you know? And that's cool, you know? But then what was out of that?

  [01:04:40] What came out of that was a petition, because now social media is so big. One of the fans actually started a petition to get me hired. And I, I don't know of any instance before or since when the Toy Fans petition to have the toy designer come, be hired back.

  [01:05:01] Azhelle Wade: How did they know it was.

  [01:05:03] David Vonner: Well, because you know, I made an announcement on social media. I was no longer with it. Right. And this is like when first Facebook started to become hot. But like the fan, the Marvel Legends fan community, they all rallied together and they started the petition.

  [01:05:17] I'm, now, I'm going through the seven cycles of emotions, you know, and, but I gotta constantly explain that I got laid off and, and sometimes it was hard, you know, especially with personal stuff that was going on. It was hard. And you know, a divorce came out of that. Real situations come out of layoffs that people do not, they can't foresee. And that was actually something that really made me, in my mind, I was like, because I experienced this and no one prepared me for, I don't want anyone to go through that type of stuff. Like, I want to people to prepare people, prepare artists.

  [01:05:57] Azhelle Wade: And it's hard too when you get to such a big company and have that happen cuz it, cuz in your head you're like, this is the dream company. I've made it. And so like, when you leave, it's like, wait.

  [01:06:11] David Vonner: Right.

  [01:06:11] Azhelle Wade: What does that mean? What does that say

  [01:06:13] David Vonner: about me?

  [01:06:14] Right. Yeah. So because, because my journey and my history and everything else, finally after at the Mattel, that's when I really had to do something about my mental health, about my mental, and I had a, like a, a mental breakdown in a way, you know?

  [01:06:30] So yeah, the one had to take it more seriously. I actually I I was in a, in a, a serious, serious program, you know, where I was basically, you know, in meetings every day for eight hours a day. I was. And I had to be driven there. For your mental health.

  [01:06:48] And, and the thing about it was, this was group therapy, you know, so it was a intense mm-hmm. Cause and I really felt that I needed that. And it was such a blessing person. I mean, not only did I need it for my own self therapy, but I also had to be around other individuals who, who go through mental health issues too.

  [01:07:10] Azhelle Wade: You know what I mean? Right. And um, yeah. And what came out of that was finding my creativity again, you know? Mm-hmm. and and refinding my voice again. Refinding the confidence again. You know? And, it was one of the greatest things. I wanna know how you started your own studio like, how long did it take after dealing with all the layoffs of corporate life for you to be like, you know what?

  [01:07:39] That's it. I'm doing it right now.

  [01:07:40] David Vonner: it was after Mattel, after all the social stuff. And I was like, you know, my, and my wife always, my wife is very business oriented, you know, she's very, she's had multiple businesses. And she was like, you know, you gotta think of yourself as a business, not just as someone who's creating stuff for businesses.

  [01:07:57] So with that, it just kind of gives you that confidence to say, I can do this.

  [01:08:03] If this can happen to me, all you gotta do is stay true to yourself and stay in the game. You know? And just the frustration, not let the frustration overcome you. And that frustration can manifest itself in so many ways. It can stop you from creating, it can stop thinking you cause you to give up. It can cause you to think that they're racist against me, that they're biased against me.

  [01:08:30] It can play against your mind. And not saying those things don't exist, but when you're, when you're frustrated, it can open the door for so many things that can turn negative within you. So it's like, man, like, you know, I know I'm not the, I know I'm not the best artist I know that I'm not never proclaimed to be, I know I'm not the best designer.

  [01:08:52] I never proclaimed to be, but I know that I love this thing. I love every aspect of it. So that love makes me always be intimate with it, you know, in some kind of way. And with that, just opportunities open up.

  [01:09:07] Azhelle Wade: I love that. And then, so when you started your business, what was the moment where you knew it was gonna.

  [01:09:13] David Vonner: I knew it was gonna work once I got my wife on board, you know, once I was in , because I mean,

  [01:09:19] Azhelle Wade: that's a great partnership. As soon as I have my wife, I was, I knew

  [01:09:23] David Vonner: I was good. I mean, cause she's not a toy person, you know? I mean, she, yeah, I mean, she.

  [01:09:28] The fact that she believed in me and my vision, and she was like, Hey, I, I'll play my part. That's what really gave me the confidence, like, all right, I can do this because, you know, that's, it just kind of made me realize that that's the role I've been playing all along.

  [01:09:48] Azhelle Wade: Okay. David, this has been incredible. I want you to close out with lessons because I mean, there are a lot of lessons in your entire story, but I have a few questions that I normally ask.

  [01:09:58] So the first question is around the collector market, because you have so much experience in it, right?

  [01:10:04] If somebody listening to this podcast is looking to create their own collector toy line, how would you recommend them to start?

  [01:10:11] David Vonner: I really would suggest you start by really studying what the collective market, you know, because a lot of guys who are in the collective market, they want to do it because. They're such fans of whatever, like they're fans of mass, so I'm gonna do a massive universe, statue, whatever.

  [01:10:30] But, and even though you may have the ability to do that, , is the business climate right, for that? You know what I mean? Just because, just because you may love that thing, is the climate really right for that? You know what I mean? Is it something that, that, you know, is needed?

  [01:10:48] You know, so it's like it's, and with that, you really gotta do your due diligence, man, to really study the market. Cause you know, it, it's, it's a lot that goes into creating collective time, finances your mind, you know, and, and it's a lot that can go into,

  [01:11:07] Azhelle Wade: Okay. My next question for you is, what's the best piece of advice you have for up and coming toy creators?

  [01:11:14] Whether they want a full-time job in the industry or if they wanna start their own thing?

  [01:11:21] David Vonner: The best advice I can give you is really be a moment. You know, I, I'm, I'm a strike water, iron hot kind of guy. Like, I really move with a sense of urgency. and please, if anyone is watching this, I implore you to move with a sense of urgency.

  [01:11:35] There's not one path. It's not one way. But the main thing is being consistent and being patient with your consistent and believing in the process. Trust the process. Trust it, you know? Sometimes it could take years to get there, but trust the process. If you're doing everything that needs to be done, you know, you, you know, it, it, it may not look right, but trust me, if you trust the process, everything will come to fruition.

  [01:12:07] You know, and that's something I really, really do believe, you know, about the universe and everything. It will, if you put that energy out there, you can find the means to fix it.

  [01:12:17] Once we start to really reframe what we have and use it to its best ability, we can do amazing things. Amazing things, you know? And that's not limited by color and gender or, or location or nationality or language, you know, it, it transcends all of that. And we all have this amazing ability to tap into that.

  [01:12:43] Azhelle Wade: Thank you so much, David. The last question I have for you is very fun and light and little. Okay, cool. So this question is what toy blew your mind as a kid?

  [01:12:54] David Vonner: I remember like the, the Oohs and Os, when I took my GI Joe figure to class with me, I always bring my toys to school and the teacher will always confiscate my toys.

  [01:13:04] But I remember when I brought my GI Joe figure to class and was like, what is that? You know, it could do all that. And when I brought my master in Univers to school, My gym teacher. My gym teacher was like, holy crap, can I see that? Like my gym teacher was like, what is this? And I was like, well that's Heman.

  [01:13:26] And he was like, this music I ever seen, you know, because my gen clearly was around physical fitness. But you, that was the first time you got to see that level of physicality on a action figure on a toy. Yeah. Yeah. My gym teacher was blown away when he saw that and he gave it right back to me, you know?

  [01:13:47] And it was like stuff like that that blows my mind. I love, which is why I love toys because I love, I love seeing other people's reactions. I love when other people's minds are grown. I love seeing that. Yeah. Look, put a face in a kid when they like, when their eyes are all big. I love that. I love when a kid goes, attention starts crying the to when their parents will let 'em have it.

  [01:14:10] I love it. I love that. I love to seeing that that demand on display is demand right on display. And they don't know, they may not know the history of it. They definitely don't know the development history. You know, kids are brutally honest. When they see it. They have to have it. They love it. It's the coolest thing.

  [01:14:32] They're enamored and I love that. Natural wall reaction. So I love seeing when other people's minds are blown, you know? Yeah, I love that. I love it. That's awesome.

  [01:14:45] Azhelle Wade: Oh, okay. So was Heman was your thing because of that

  [01:14:48] David Vonner: memory? Yeah. You know, Heman very much. Yeah, very much so. And also was at the time when I was changing, like I, I was going through puberty too, you know, so it really landed differently.

  [01:15:01]

  [01:15:01] It's like, I just love that, so it just really hit, when I saw Eman, it was just so aggressive and so big and so fantastical alongside with the movies that were starting to come out at that time. It started hit me in a, in a totally different way, a totally different way. Oh,

  [01:15:17] Azhelle Wade: that's awesome.

  [01:15:19] Before we go though, I know, I feel like there's stuff you might wanna share with the listeners and promote like maybe some of your black inventors Hall of Fame work or maybe something.

  [01:15:29] David Vonner: So, yeah. Well, you know, number one, I mean, you know, we have the black Inventors Hall of Fame film, you know?

  [01:15:35] Mm-hmm. and it, it's the Gathering, which is streaming you can look it up, black Inventors, hall of Fame, the Gathering, but also too, it's like, you know, it just created so much momentum to be a voice, you know? And so now I think that we are actually starting to get some traction and actually start to have some weight and, and within it, you know, it's almost like a board, you know, it was like the Avengers or something.

  [01:15:55] But, but in this group we have Lonnie Johnson who created the super, so well, Ken Johnson, who created the game, phase 10. Lamont Morris, my brother worked at, has together, he reinvented the easy Big oven. You know? It's just some amazing individuals that are associated, that are now part of this, this group, you know, board members.

  [01:16:20] And number one, it's, it's super dope. I'm not part of a fraternity, you know, so it's really cool to actually be part of this, you know, we have this fraternity, this sorority wheel. We have females involved in this group and it is us black folk, you know, and that's just an amazing thing, you know, to actually, to experience.

  [01:16:41] So I love that. I'm also, you know, you know, working, working within the cell. In. And we have our World Force figures that are dropping and the cell company are like the, you know, they're like the gatekeepers of pop culture. You know, they, you know, anything from toys, they have the toys that made us on, on Netflix, the movies that made us, you know, a toy store near you on Amazon, you know icons on Earth that runs on the history channel, you know, and tons of comedy programs.

  [01:17:11] So it's like to actually work with the entertainment company like this, and then they want to develop a toy, you know, department, you know, the toy division. And for me to head it up, it's amazing. So yeah, we have so many cool things coming out with the sound. We have robo force and the great bar legends and laughter. There's so many cool crowds coming out and it's really, really fun to be a part of that, you know?

  [01:17:36] Azhelle Wade: You, you actually said something in our black inventors got game panel that I was watching for a film about how the toy industry should say more about school shootings when kids are getting killed that we're not saying enough.

  [01:17:51] I thought that was really astute. Like we aren't saying enough, like the toy industry doesn't have a stance as far as I can see about school shootings and

  [01:18:00] David Vonner: they should, I mean, you know, whenever there's a recall, whenever there's a toy recall, whenever a kid is harmed or you know, God could be killed from a toy, immediate action is taking place.

  [01:18:13] Which is another reason why I can't understand why so many guns are manufactured. You know, just stop the production, right? That's a whole nother thing. You know, but it's like the, the moment a kid is harm and, and, and the word toy is a very, very blanket word. It's a very broad term. The moment someone says toy, everything is affected, everything on the shelves.

  [01:18:36] And that immediate area is affected everything. Right. You know, like no one wants to take the risk. If a kid is harm, if there's a pain issue or heart issue, then everything's gonna stop because we don't want any children to be honed. Children who will become adults. Adults who will guide this world, like mm-hmm.

  [01:19:00] There's a reason why kids are held in high regard because they're the next step, the next stage. So to me, whenever a kid is with like the school shooting those mass shootings and everything for the toy, for, for a toy company to be silent. And it really, really did start with tare rice because to mere rice was murdered playing with a toy gun.

  [01:19:23] And it was, the silence was, was, was deafening. It was deafening how silent the toy community was. And I'm like, he was playing a toy gun. He was playing with a toy. You know, so, yeah. So when, when I feel as though these kids are hard, man, I just feel as though as, as protectors of the child's imagination to foster joy, to always be on the fun side of life, to be on the joyful side of life when life is extinguished, 20 people should stand up and say something about that.

  [01:20:02] Maybe if a world, a world renowned toy company stepped up or world renowned toy company stepped up in unison right. And actually voiced that like, Hey, what's happening to these kids? Let's stop it. Let's all create a heads of protection for these kids. Maybe people will start listening because they held these companies in higher a bar.

  [01:20:28] Azhelle Wade: David, thank you so much for all these insights. Yeah, thank you. We had like a, we had like a post credit scene after the interview.

  [01:20:35] David Vonner: Thank, I mean, you doing an amazing job. You know, you passing the knowledge that you, I mean, the thing, you know, just, just by you sharing your knowledge is something that for me is, is, is good the experience. Cause we never had that person do that before. We've never had anyone to split down just in a simple, fun way.

  [01:20:55] Azhelle Wade: We really didn't

  [01:20:56] David Vonner: really, to you for even having that, you know, it's just dope and, and I'm, but then I love

  [01:21:00] Azhelle Wade: having people like you come on to fill the gaps, you know?

  [01:21:04] David Vonner: Yeah. You know, and, and yeah. But, but you have so much to share. You know what I'm saying? It's all part of the, like when I say for culture, you know, is like, I really mean that. It is, is, you know, this, it just, it's so fast.

  [01:21:18] So we just mm-hmm. , I love seeing. You know, just people smile from the thing that they love to show, you know? Mm-hmm. A toy, just a paraphernalia or poster or art or, you know, just, it makes you feel some kind of joy. You can rock that and express it. I love it. You know? I love it. You know? Yeah. And it should just be more that, and no one should be held like, you know, negative or get some kind of negative feedback because of that, cuz they just wanna express themselves in a positive way.

  [01:21:51] Right? Yeah. You know, if you're not doing anything, being a, you know, trying to get some wild message out there, you know, you're intentionally hurting people's feelings, you know, you know, disrespecting the past or, or, or other individuals. Like, what good is that bringing, what good does that bring No, no good, you know, but mm-hmm.

  [01:22:09] and if you wanna teach a lesson, you want to be more poignant, then create an atmosphere where you can teach that in the context can be properly presented, you know? Mm-hmm. . But for the most part, you know, everyone basically wants to live life, be positive, you know, you know, and, and just enjoy everything.

  [01:22:31] But it's the fear, the fear factors coming into play where anxiety's coming to play. People don't want be, yeah, I don't want my kids here. I don't want to live there. You know, people who are at one point part of the community, all of a sudden don't behave communal and bounce , you know, shop somewhere else.

  [01:22:51] You know, that's not community. Community means tough out. Right. You know, community means like you stay put, you know, and, and help build it around. Not bounce because you don't like people coming in to make the community better. And if they're behave in a certain way, not at the right thing, Hey, let's, let's, let's really show the way.

  [01:23:12] Let's put out the proper measure so we can guide them and not handcuff ourselves. Yeah. That's how you really foster respect and, and love in the community. Everybody wants to live. Everybody wants to live decent. I don't care how gangster you are. You want, you want to live if you want the kids to be safe, you know, you want to be respected.

  [01:23:35] That's just a universal thing. You want to be able to, that's true. Live and thrive, you know, I don't, but the fears that come in is what sets everything off and make people act a certain way, you know? That's true. We relinquish those fears that we can, you know, get to see each other and for me, the way to relentless fears is always a spin through toys and that's why I love it.

  [01:24:05] Azhelle Wade: Where can people contact you if they want? Can people contact you or, or reach out to you or follow you? Where, where

  [01:24:10] David Vonner: should they go? Well, I'm simple. I don't have no aliases. So, you know David Bonner Okay. On Instagram. David Bonner on Facebook. You know David Bonner on LinkedIn.

  [01:24:18] Okay. I'm, I, I, I'm, I'm actually, you know, stepping back from Twitter so

  [01:24:25] Azhelle Wade: Oh, because of, yeah, well, I,

  [01:24:27] it's just I'm just stepping back, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. And so stepping back from that. But yeah, I could be reached anywhere, you know, so. Okay. David Va just type right.

  [01:24:37] David Vonner: David Va. You can find me.

  [01:24:40] Azhelle Wade: I will put all your info in the show notes. Whatever you allow me to put, I'll put in the show notes. . Oh, thank you so much for being on the show today. It was a pleasure having, it's gonna be a two parter

  [01:24:50] David Vonner: episode, I think. Oh wow. It was pleasure when I start running my mouth, it's crazy.

  [01:24:54] It's right. People

  [01:24:55] Azhelle Wade: we had,

  [01:24:56] David Vonner: cause they get the insight. We had tears, we had, we

  [01:24:59] Azhelle Wade: had tears. I feel like Oprah, Like the toy Oprah. Okay. It was a pleasure, David. Take care. Have a great rest of your day or night.

  [01:25:07] You just put that

  [01:25:08] David Vonner: into the universe.

  [01:25:09] Azhelle Wade: Oh, the toy .

  [01:25:12] David Vonner: You just put that to the universe. But thank you.

  [01:25:14] You have a great night. You have a great evening. You have a great week. Thank you so much.

  [01:25:19] Conclusion

  [01:25:19] Azhelle Wade: Well, there you have it Toy people. My interview with David Vonner.

  [01:25:23] I hope you found his toy story inspiring and motivational for you. If you love this podcast and you haven't already left us a review, what are you waiting for?

  [01:25:33] Whenever a new review comes through, I get a notification on my phone and it keeps me motivated to keep coming back week after week with these incredible interviews and my solo podcast episodes. As always, thank you so much for being here with me. I know there are a ton of podcasts out there, so it truly means the world to me that you tune into this one.

  [01:25:56] Until next week, I'll see you later. Toy people.

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