Episode #166: Tips For Creating Niche Products in the Toy Industry with April Hail
Listen Now
Tap Play Below or Listen On Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Google Podcasts
Did you know that you can turn everyday experiences into great toy ideas? Today’s podcast guest noticed that her toddler loved to play with pretend food toys. However, she saw that the food toys on the market didn’t represent what was popular in Hawai’i, where she lives. So, she created a toy company that started with Hawai’ian food toy sets and has now branched out with toys that represent other cuisines found in Hawai’i like Chinese, Vietnamese, and Japanese.
April Hail has lived in Hawai’i for between 20 and 30 years of her life. There, she started Keiki KauKau, after being inspired by her kids’ play patterns and the popular foods in Hawai’i. April shares about the struggles of being a parent and being an entrepreneur who is running a small one-person company. Her kids inspired her to create the business, but she also seeks to have balance so she can spend plenty of time with them. You’ll also learn about the unique struggles of importing from China to Hawai’i while also selling to the mainland US, which shipping platform you may want to try to save money, and advice on how to market a niche toy.
EPISODE CLIFF NOTES
Find out the benefits of starting a niche company in a small community. [00:06:26]
Find out which products are often cheaper: online or in-store. [00:10:32]
Learn why shipping international products to Hawai’i is particularly costly and difficult. [00:11:51]
Find out about an easy shipping website that could help you save money on shipping costs. [00:17:10]
Learn when you should hire someone to do your marketing for you. [00:20:54]
Find out about the unique history of Hawai’i that has led it to become the most multicultural state. [00:22:29]
Learn the value of offering niche products that people can relate to. [00:26:55]
Find out what April finds difficult about being a solo entrepreneur. [00:28:01]
Learn April’s best piece of advice for getting started with a niche product in the toy industry. [00:37:09]
Find out how to target layered niches for even more specialization in the toy industry. [00:40:14]
-
This episode is brought to you by www.thetoycoach.com
Shop KeikiKauKau on their website.
Follow KeikiKauKau on Instagram.
Follow KeikiKauKau on Facebook .
-
[00:00:00] Azhelle Wade: You are listening to Making It in The Toy Industry. Episode number 166.
[00:00:05] Hey there, toy people. Azhelle Wade here and welcome back to another episode of the Toy Coach Podcast, making it in the Toy Industry. This is a weekly podcast brought to you by the toy coach.com. Today's guest's name is April. She's a mom of two and former teacher based in Honolulu, Hawaii. In 2019, she launched a brand called Keiki Kaukau which means kid food. After realizing there were virtually no toys available. that reflected the unique beauty and diversity of Hawaii. Since then, her collection has grown to include over 30 original toys, books, and games. Many of them designed in collaboration with local artists from Hawaii.
[00:00:59] Now, I met April about two years ago when she first booked a consultation call with me and when she told me what her company was and I went on her. I loved it, loved the design, but I thought, how is someone making a business out of something so niche? And that's what she's here on the podcast to talk to us about today.
[00:01:20] So April, welcome to the show.
[00:01:22] April Hail: Hey, Azhelle. So good to be here.
[00:01:25] Azhelle Wade: great to have you here. I'm so excited to have you share your story of building Keiki Kaukau and I would love to start off just with, have you always worked in the toy?
[00:01:36] April Hail: Oh, definitely not at all. I like was one of those people who bounced around for years after college, like just figuring stuff out. And then I ended up teaching for five years. And it's only when I took a break and had my two kids that, you know, I started getting into toys as they were. And the idea came to me.
[00:01:53] So it was, I'm definitely an accidental entrepreneur, accidental toy person.
[00:01:57] Azhelle Wade: let's talk about how that idea came to you. Cuz many people are inspired by their own kids or kids they work with. So how'd that idea come?
[00:02:06] April Hail: Yeah, so, so I grew up in Hawaii, which is you know, a very unique place culturally. There's this sort of, it's a sort of melting pot of Pacific rim cultures, Asian American Pacific Islander. In addition to having, you know, the, the natural beauty that we're well-known for. And so when my kids were growing up, I guess I had, my son was what, three, and then my little one was a baby.
[00:02:26] My toddler was really, Play food toys. Right. You know, it's a classic toy, especially this little wooden pretend food. Especially toddlers, like they're learning to socialize, they're learning language. These sort of everyday interactions and play food is just such a great facilitator, facilitator for that.
[00:02:42] And then I thought, you know, here in Hawaii we have these special foods that we love and cherish. . I don't know if you'd even be familiar with this stuff, but so the fruits obviously, but also shave ice, which is like a, I think you call it a snow cone in your parts.
[00:02:56] Azhelle Wade: Know the, I know the snow cone.
[00:02:58] April Hail: Yes. The Musubi, which is probably less familiar, it is a, a spam sushi
[00:03:02] Azhelle Wade: Ooh, spam
[00:03:04] April Hail: yes.
[00:03:05] Doesn't sound the most delectable, but don't knock until you try it. Anyway, we have all the, and then additionally we have, you know, great Chinese food, Filipino food, Korean food brought in by these waves of immigrants that kind of settled. Here in this very multicultural place. So anyway, I thought, why don't we have some food toys that reflect the foods that we're actually surrounded by and growing up with?
[00:03:27] And so you know, I never would've thought I would be someone who would do business or manufacturing or anything like that. But I had a few classmates from my high school that I saw had started businesses and it's kind of like, you know, one. Something comes a little closer to you, you can start seeing yourself.
[00:03:46] Yeah. And I thought, huh, if that person could do this, like maybe it's not so impossible or out of reach. And so I talked to a couple friends kind of briefly about what their process was in, in setting up a business and finding a manufacturer. And so I just kind. Set off down that path. I never really intended to build a brand or a company.
[00:04:06] I just had that one thing in mind. Right? We're gonna make this the, the play food set, right? A little pretend wooden play food set of, of a few popular Hawaii things. , but it, you know, the reaction was really positive. Local people here, they were excited to see something that they felt reflected their culture.
[00:04:25] And you know, as you said, we're a tiny, tiny state that a lot of people, you know, some people are like, oh, it's Hawaii. A state is a part of the US . Some people write off, but at the same time in pre Covid times, at least, we have tens of thousands of tourists coming in every single day. . So there's this revolving door of people who are visiting, who are experiencing local culture and excited to be here and who ultimately are a customer base right, for Hawaii inspired or themed products.
[00:04:56] So even though we're tiny, we do have this sort of constant influx of, of people.
[00:05:01] Azhelle Wade: Are, are you born and raised in Hawaii?
[00:05:04] April Hail: So I was born in California. My parents had met in Hawaii. My my mom was from Hong Kong, my dad from Los Angeles, so they met in college there. Ended up briefly going back to California and then we moved back here.
[00:05:16] Azhelle Wade: So how many years have you been there?
[00:05:17] April Hail: Oh gosh. I'm not the greatest at math. I'm trying to think of the years that I was away, cuz I did go away for college.
[00:05:24] On the East coast. I bounced around. I was a nanny in France for two years, . I lived in China for a year with my husband, so I, I don't know. It's 20 to 30.
[00:05:34] Azhelle Wade: 20 to 30 years in Hawaii.
[00:05:37] April Hail: Yeah.
[00:05:38] Azhelle Wade: Okay. So I, I'm trying to get the picture of how culturally ingrained you are. Right. So
[00:05:44] that's where, Yeah,
[00:05:45] April Hail: so I mean, that's an interesting question because there are a lot of like layers and sensitivities around culture here. I, to be honest, am probably considered like, marginally local because I, I'm, I don't go generations back. Right. Whereas, you know, I'm not native Hawaiian. And then even within other local populations, there are people who came here to work on plantations, you know, several generations back.
[00:06:06] And so, you know, there are a lot of different layers of sort of identity here.
[00:06:11] Azhelle Wade: So the, the next question I have for you is, as you decided to build this kit of particular Hawaii Foods like a toy kit that you didn't see anywhere, you said it was received really well, but by whom? Like how did you start telling people.
[00:06:26] April Hail: yeah, at, at first it was very local and although, again, it's a small market, but the upside of that is that it's a community where where it travels fast. Where if you get into, you know, a few local boutiques, you know, and I, I. Just walked into a few stores and said, oh, I have this product. Like, would you be interested in selling it?
[00:06:45] I had no idea how any, I didn't have a line sheet. I didn't,
[00:06:48] Azhelle Wade: Well wait. no.
[00:06:49] Tell us about what you did though. So you, did you take your first sample or not your first, probably your 10th sample from a China
[00:06:55] factory and and walked in there with it and said, I have this cool thing. Here's why I made it. Would you buy it? Like, tell us about that.
[00:07:02] April Hail: Yeah, so I think, I'm trying to remember if I waited till I had the product on the ground or not. Right. So I ordered the minimum order of quantity, which was a a thousand units
[00:07:12] Azhelle Wade: Before you've
[00:07:12] had any orders.
[00:07:14] April Hail: before I had any orders. Yeah, I, I, I didn't wanna, like, take orders and not have something ready. And I set up a Shopify website.
[00:07:22] I'm not sure who gave me the tip to do that, but I'm still on Shopify , so I'm glad I did. And I think I, I started like an Instagram and I like, I like maybe teased it out a week or two in advance with some, you know, phone photos I took in my living room. And then just, you know, friends shared and being the age that I am, a lot of my friends are moms and who have other mom friends. And so, yeah, I think the first batch of orders was just through the website, direct to consumer. Right. But then I, you know, I walked into a couple kids stores and I think I had the sample, maybe like a sheet with some contact information. And I just asked, you know, would you be interested in selling this?
[00:08:05] And I had, I had. Expectations for them. I didn't say like, you need to buy this many units or whatever. I was just like, kind of like tentative about even approaching them. But you know, a lot of the, especially small independent boutiques, they're super easy to work with. They're like, oh sure, yeah. Like, I'll take 10.
[00:08:20] Like, Let's
[00:08:21] Azhelle Wade: drop him off tomorrow,
[00:08:23] April Hail: Yeah. It's not like, you know, knocking on the door of Toys R Us or whatever. And with some big corporate process,
[00:08:31] Azhelle Wade: Do you remember the name of the first boutique that carried your.
[00:08:35] April Hail: oh gosh. There's one on the north shore of Hawaii called, or of Oahu called the growing Cakey, who's still one of our customers. There was one actually, I remember the first store said she would take it it was like another local boutique. And then she turned around a week later and she was like, actually, we're gonna be doing some of our own kids' products, so I don't think we should carry yours.
[00:08:54] And I was so disappointed,
[00:08:55] Azhelle Wade: No.
[00:08:56] April Hail: But it worked out. They're not even open anymore. They, they release some other things. But yeah, so I mean, because Hawaii is such a small community and fortunately Instagram is you know, a free, very useful tool for, for. Gaining some publicity and making connections.
[00:09:15] It was this sort of thing where once I got into a few stores, other people would just reach out and contact me. And that's still happening. I don't have a sales rep, , I don't have really much time to do sales outreach, but because, you know, it's such a small place, people know what's going on and hear about things.
[00:09:33] Azhelle Wade: Do you have an idea of how many stores there are in Hawaii available to you to get your product into?
[00:09:39] April Hail: So I'd say we're probably in, I wanna say about 50
[00:09:44] Azhelle Wade: Percent. Oh. Oh,
[00:09:45] April Hail: No, 50, yeah. Individual stores. A number of those were, we picked up in the last year as the tourism industry kind of rebounded. So hotel boutiques that would reach out. But you know, we're in the local Nordstrom store. The airports.
[00:10:01] And then a lot of just smaller tend, tend to be kind of slightly higher end boutiques because the price point is pretty high. I remember you were kind of shocked.
[00:10:09] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. Like you're talking what? Great segue. Because yeah, I remember the first time I went on your website, I was like, wow, this is gorgeous. This is beautiful. And then I saw the price points and I was like, oh my gosh, , who is purchasing this stuff now? Well, let's say when you sell product online, there have been plenty of reports done on how people will spend more money online than they will in
[00:10:31] April Hail: Oh, really?
[00:10:32] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. Yeah. People will spend more money online than they will in person. Often you'll see it with Amazon products I've heard my family and friends specifically saying, yeah, I went and bought this thing off Amazon and now I'm realizing in a store it would've been cheaper.
[00:10:46] April Hail: I, there seems to be an assumption that Amazon like has the cheapest,
[00:10:49] right. They're gonna.
[00:10:50] Azhelle Wade: think they did like that was how they gained market share.
[00:10:53] But they don't have to do that anymore because now they're selling convenience.
[00:10:58] April Hail: right, right.
[00:10:59] Azhelle Wade: anyway. Neither here nor there and, and now when I look at your site, I'm like, yeah, it's a little expensive, but thanks to inflation, it's
[00:11:07] April Hail: Right.
[00:11:08] Azhelle Wade: It's kind of like, well, this is kinda reasonable
[00:11:11] April Hail: I know I paid like $8 for a smoothie the other day. I was like, huh. Like, I guess I feel like kinda normal now.
[00:11:18] Azhelle Wade: yes,
[00:11:19] April Hail: But w I mean, E everyone in Hawaii is used to paying a lot for everything because everything needs to be shipped in and Yeah. And space is limited and rent is high and is expensive,
[00:11:31] Azhelle Wade: I know that one of your biggest struggles, and at one point, and I don't know if it's still a struggle now, was the shipping of your product, especially when you wanted to get it into into the us, you wanted to sell into the US actually even selling in Hawaii. Cuz didn't you say you were shipping from China to Hawaii to sell and then if you wanted to sell to the US it's China, to Hawaii to the us.
[00:11:51] April Hail: Yeah, and it's not only that there's some like obscure law that requires shipping containers to, to pass through the continental US before they come to Hawaii. So stuff is going and, and it takes me, it'll take me like three months to receive something from when it's sent out. It'll go through like Long Beach or something, and then it'll come here, and then it'll sit at the port, like waiting for customs checks or whatever they do.
[00:12:15] And then, right. If I'm reselling to the mainland US, then it's getting shipped out again. So, un it's very inefficient. it eats up the cost. It's not environmentally friendly, so, I am trying one thing to get around that. So I had a small batch of product routed to a three pl a fulfillment center in Michigan.
[00:12:35] I wanna say , my continental geographies is not strong. And so they've been helping me with some of the mainlands orders, getting those out a little bit more
[00:12:45] Azhelle Wade: So they're doing like the QA checks for you. They're re sorting the packing, so you don't have to do all of that.
[00:12:52] April Hail: Yeah, so since it's a sort of first test run, I did a small batch. It's just two pallets worth. It's not my whole product assortment and I'm only having them do wholesale orders, so mostly orders that come through fair or a couple of their places. So I've been lucky that they're willing to work with me being so small and not very profitable for them at the moment.
[00:13:15] But it's sort of, I kind of just wanted to go through the motions to see what that would look like, see what the interest was. And you know, what costs end up adding up to be, it can be hard to gauge how much it actually costs right. Until you do it. So
[00:13:27] yeah, I'm testing that out.
[00:13:28] Azhelle Wade: I wanna, I wanna like, like go back into how you are making, cuz you're still building this niche brand a success. So you did say, You notice when you first launched the community so small, it's kind of building upon itself. But do you, I mean, I guess you, you did say you have 10,000 tourists, you know, during a normal year.
[00:13:48] You said per per
[00:13:50] April Hail: Day. I think it was it. I think it was higher than that. Pre pandemic.
[00:13:54] and this is as much as you feel comfortable sharing, but like what level of sales do boutique see for products like yours? Like how is this feasible? Say you're only in 50 stores, right? And you have, I wanna say like 30 plus products.
[00:14:11] April Hail: I mean it, some of those pro, sometimes I'll get a batch of a thousand and it'll take me more than a year to get through it.
[00:14:18] So my top sellers, you know, I might going through a few batches of a thousand. But other things, you know, and the, and the company's still so early that a lot of products, I'm on their first run and I probably won't reorder because they just move too slowly.
[00:14:32] My storage base is limited, you know, like Just kind of, sort of need to trim things down a little bit. I mean, the fun part for me of this whole experience is really the designing. I really enjoy the product development, the creative side, I'm sure you know. And so I like coming up with ideas, but then, you know, if they, if they don't work well in the market, then I'll probably phase them out.
[00:14:54] Azhelle Wade: where do you make a, a bulk of your sales. So say you're a top seller, which one is your top seller? Your
[00:14:59] April Hail: So the, the original play food set is probably still the top seller. Um, This one that I'm wearing right now, this is like a little wooden lay bead set. My son put this together yesterday, but basically sort of a toddler thing for them to thread together, make their own little lay the books sell pretty well but aren't very profitable.
[00:15:18] What else?
[00:15:20] Azhelle Wade: So the question here is if, so let's look, looking at your wooden play food sets your Top Seller online, what does it do in store for you? Is it still a top seller in store? And where do you sell more online or in.
[00:15:35] April Hail: I should know more of that analytics sort of stuff, but I honestly, I, you know, if, if it's just you, you're just like getting through all this stuff that needs to be done each day. it's still what? Consistent style. I mean, keep people, keep having babies. A lot of stuff gets, you know, maybe people wanna gift something to their friends who live elsewhere in the US but they want it to feel special to Hawaii.
[00:15:58] Or maybe people visited in the past and have a special memory. A lot of our products are actually more. Asian theme generally. So we have a, a wooden food puzzle collection, and they have, we have like a dim sum, a bento Philiphine cuisine, Korean cuisine. And so those are, you know, people ordering from all across the US who maybe identify with some of those cultures.
[00:16:19] So it's not necessarily just Hawaii specific. It's also people who are kind of hungry for something reflective of their.
[00:16:26] Azhelle Wade: So your website does also ship into the continental us, so they're paying for that shipping coming back.
[00:16:32] April Hail: I'm usually paying for the shipping, so there I, I, I can't charge people what it actually costs to ship. I mean, a flat rate envelope is like $9 now. Right. I regularly have packages that are like 20 to $30 in shipping. So usually I'm either supplementing a big chunk or, or all of that cost.
[00:16:54] Azhelle Wade: Wow. You gotta check. Do you use pirate Ship to ship?
[00:16:58] April Hail: I use Shipo right now.
[00:17:00] I have some good rates with u p s. I have a call with FedEx, scheduled to see if they can help me out. But it's definitely, definitely a, a sore point.
[00:17:10] Azhelle Wade: oof. I mean, I don't know if pirate Chip would help you being
[00:17:13] in Hawaii, but. I've, I've used a lot and it is the cheapest by far. Yeah, and it's, and I found out about it because on forums for small entrepreneurs, they, people talk about pirate ship often,
[00:17:25] specifically people who use Etsy and Shopify talk about it being like, they have exclusive rates apparently, but they also pull rates from multiple sources.
[00:17:34] So like U S P, which you might, but FedEx and and when I used it, it. Where normally I went to stamps.com and I was paying, I don't know, like every, whenever I have my class, I ship out a bunch of like toy creators Academy books. So it would cost me like $300 to ship these books. And I'm shipping them to different countries, different states.
[00:17:56] And it's, it's a really long process on
[00:17:58] April Hail: Mm-hmm.
[00:17:59] Azhelle Wade: Like you have to file the country separately from the states. It's like a whole. , but on pirate ship, I was just able to put in all the information and it separates the in-state, in-country versus out of country. It creates the two separate labels, like the customs form and the non customs form.
[00:18:18] And it gave me the best rate, and instead of each one costing me like $10 a piece, it was like $5.
[00:18:25] April Hail: Mm-hmm.
[00:18:26] Azhelle Wade: why have I been wasting my money on
[00:18:28] stamp com?
[00:18:30] April Hail: No, I mean, yeah.
[00:18:32] There should be a consultant, a shipping consultant. They, and they don't charge a
[00:18:35] Azhelle Wade: charge a fee.
[00:18:36] Yeah, they don't charge like, cuz stamps.com was a $17 a month fee just to have the account.
[00:18:41] Yeah. And this doesn't have a, you know, I don't know why, what data they're buying of mine, but like it's
[00:18:47] April Hail: Yeah.
[00:18:48] Azhelle Wade: So
[00:18:48] April Hail: I, I tried Ship Station and I honestly found the interface to be like, so overwhelming.
[00:18:53] Azhelle Wade: pirate ship is so easy. It is
[00:18:56] designed beautifully, like literally four clicks and you're shipping, it's amazing. Yeah,
[00:19:01] April Hail: I'm sold. I'll take it
[00:19:02] Azhelle Wade: it's amazing. Try one package. Okay, so I guess I wanna dive into like, how are you getting traffic to your site? Like, how are people finding out about you?
[00:19:12] April Hail: You know what, and to be very transparent, like through most of the year website traffic, it's a trickle. Like, I, I have a handful of orders a day until the fourth quarter. Unless I have a new product or a big sale, you know, things are, it's just sort of a trickle and it's really become more of a wholesale business.
[00:19:31] You know, more about just getting in front of new eyeballs out in stores and having people. , discover the product that way. So you know, I have about 14,000 Instagram followers, although I don't feel like I'm getting that much visibility on Post lately.
[00:19:44] Azhelle Wade: Q4 is terrible for Instagram. It is the worst. So
[00:19:48] April Hail: Is it cuz everybody's paying to
[00:19:50] Azhelle Wade: Yeah.
[00:19:50] Q4 is huge for ads, but I don't know if it's just the ads, but I've realized this year and last year, Q4 has always been awful. I'm like, why do I even bother posting? Like just give up like Q4 is. It's not
[00:20:02] April Hail: Or you have to be so committed in engaging and creating, you know, content that people wanna see. And I don't have the energy for that. Yeah. So, so yeah. And then I have an email list. I don't, I can't add maybe five, five or 6,000 people.
[00:20:17] Azhelle Wade: Oh, that's
[00:20:17] April Hail: I don't know how, I dunno how many of those are like real people answering their email.
[00:20:21] But.
[00:20:22] Azhelle Wade: provider do you use?
[00:20:24] April Hail: I use the Shopify email
[00:20:26] Azhelle Wade: Lord. Okay. All right. Well,
[00:20:32] April Hail: I don't, I don't send a lot of emails.
[00:20:34] Azhelle Wade: Oh, you don't?
[00:20:35] April Hail: yeah.
[00:20:36] Azhelle Wade: Okay.
[00:20:36] April Hail: I don't like to, and you know, I, I totally know from a business perspective, like if I like ramped up my marketing, like I'm sure I would make more sales. Cuz I see people doing it at a much more aggressive and professional level. But I am, I'm just like not into trying to convince people to buy stuff.
[00:20:54] Azhelle Wade: So you gotta hire someone to do it for
[00:20:56] April Hail: I know, I know I should hire someone who's like passionate
[00:20:59] about sending marketing emails,
[00:21:01] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. I love sending marketing emails. I'm sure you know cuz you get mine
[00:21:06] April Hail: Yeah, these are very personal and they always have something to say,
[00:21:09] Azhelle Wade: and yours can be too. I mean, the thing is honestly, I wish I knew what I know. When I had my costume company and I was doing it
[00:21:17] full-time because I used to struggle so hard trying to market. And I think it's just cuz you create the product, you, it's hard to market a product that you've made.
[00:21:24] Right. But for me, as someone on the outside, like I see like so many posts, like from your one listing of a Kiki Kow book, it's cow cow time. Like, you know, there could. So many stories, like, I wanna know like where the story came from. Your product description could turn into like a email. Like there's so many opportunities.
[00:21:44] April Hail: Right. You can build out content from, from
[00:21:46] not very much
[00:21:47] Azhelle Wade: And you already know your, it's, it's important that you know your customer, like, you know what they actually want. Like the fact that you think that my emails are personable and like interesting means that I'm doing right by you. So you need to make sure you're, whatever you create
[00:21:59] is right by the moms that wanna read.
[00:22:01] April Hail: Mm-hmm.
[00:22:02] Azhelle Wade: would have to say about your brand, but I do know last time we talked, you told me about, you said there's a lot of Asian influence in your brand be, and you said that was because of all of the different cultures that make up Hawaii. So can you give us like a little bit of a history lesson, why there's so much like co-mingling of like food Filipino foods and like Right.
[00:22:25] April Hail: Yeah. So, um,
[00:22:27] Azhelle Wade: like there's a lot going on in here,
[00:22:29] April Hail: yeah, I think it is like there are some statistics that talk about it as the most multicultural state. Um, Yeah. And there are a lot of people like me who are considered haa or multiracial. I think my mom in co Yeah, that's the word we use. Yeah. My mom in college actually wrote her. Thesis on like mixed marriages or something, which is back in the seventies. But, so anyway, Hawaii was s sprouted up out of nowhere. from volcanoes was discovered by Polynesian Voyager in, you know, if you've seen Milana, you kind of know you know, they found their way across the vast Pacific Ocean and, and started a civilization here. And they have their own rich culture. In cuisine based on you.
[00:23:13] the foods that they brought with them, the things they grew here in the last two centuries about you know, it was then discovered by the west. , the history is kind of complicated, but a lot of people came over as missionaries, right? From England or America. Those missionary families became business people.
[00:23:29] And they said, oh, there's all this fertile land like, Use it for something. Let's grow stuff and make money. Um, And so there were pineapple plantations, sugar plantations and to find workers for those plantations they brought in people from the Philippines, from Japan basically poor migrant labor.
[00:23:47] And so those people you know, at some point got a foothold. And, and some of them, you know, became business people and leaders and it, it became this very intermingled society. That, that is kind of the melting pot that we have today.
[00:24:01] Azhelle Wade: So that's where the unique foods that you were mentioning kind of come from the combination of all these different.
[00:24:07] April Hail: yeah. There's just all these different, you know, and just geographically right. We're in the middle of the Pacific Ocean and so it's sort of a landing pad for people coming from Asia to America and, and vice versa. And it's just kind of become this fertile area for for these cultures.
[00:24:24] Azhelle Wade: So talk to me about some of your most, like Hawaiian sets that you have. Like which ones would you say are like the most. Really specific
[00:24:33] April Hail: So the Hawaiian food, so La Lao and I don't have the toy in front of
[00:24:37] Azhelle Wade: I'm looking at your site actually, hold on. We can bring it up one
[00:24:41] moment. Like let's, Let's bring it.
[00:24:43] up.
[00:24:44] April Hail: So, yeah, if you look at the more Kiki Kka play food set, and that was just building on the first one. That little green bundle there that's representing La Lao, which is a, a Hawaiian dish. There you go. Wrapped in tea leaves, but inside they use the leaves of the tarot plant which is the staple food for the Hawaiian people.
[00:25:02] Usually you have some pork and fish in there as well. There next to it you can see like Simon, which is our sort of local version of like a ramen or noodle soup on the
[00:25:12] Azhelle Wade: right here. Okay.
[00:25:12] April Hail: Yeah. So that like, sort of trades out with that other little disk in the bowl. And the manip, manpo is that bun, little bun there.
[00:25:21] If you open it, it has like a, usually it's like a sort of a sweet pork. It's sort of like a Chinese
[00:25:26] Azhelle Wade: I do know like a pork bun, like a sweet pork, well, not a pork bun, like a sweet bean bun, red bean bun.
[00:25:33] April Hail: So there, yeah, there are a lot of variations. The, the most common one is like a steamed or baked like a rice flour bun. So anyway, there are all these flavors kind of coming together to create these, local dishes.
[00:25:44] Azhelle Wade: Awesome.
[00:25:46] April Hail: Not the healthiest food items, I have to say. We eat a lot of like meat and star cheer, but also, you know, fresh for food and.
[00:25:54] Azhelle Wade: So what was like, what is your most favorite item that you.
[00:25:59] April Hail: I really like the lay beads because of the interactivity. You know, kids, little kids take pride in sort of putting it together. And they represent flowers that are actually commonly used in lay here, so plumeria and orchids and crown flower. I, I really love. Process of working with artists too.
[00:26:18] So we have a board game, for example, the Aloha Land board game, which is similar in gameplay to like a candy land or a shoots and ladders type of game.
[00:26:27] Azhelle Wade: Oh,
[00:26:27] here.
[00:26:27] April Hail: there. Yeah. Yeah, it unfortunately I should get better photographs that kind of show the actual game. But I just loved working with the illustrator who's from here and she just did a great job of capturing little elements of the landscape and of local culture.
[00:26:42] So
[00:26:43] Azhelle Wade: I love it.
[00:26:44] And what do parents, or, I wouldn't say the parents, but people that buy your product, I'm sure they give you feedback. Good. Hopefully were like, they love it. What do they say they love about your.
[00:26:55] April Hail: I think it's just the, you know, like you started out talking about what a niche market it seems to be. I think it is that people like to feel seen and recognized and like that they're, where they come from is valued and you know, it doesn't feel like generic, like going down to Walmart and getting a, a toy off the shelf there.
[00:27:14] It feels a little bit more personal to the things that we grew up with and are surrounded by.
[00:27:20] Azhelle Wade: And what is your dream for Kiki Calco? What would you like to have
[00:27:23] April Hail: Oh gosh. Well, first of all, every other day I like tell my husband I'm gonna quit because
[00:27:29] Azhelle Wade: Why?
[00:27:30] April Hail: it's ju, I mean, you know, entrepreneur life, it's hard. It's a lot. Everything comes back to you. And there are parts that are really fun. I mean, lately it's just that a lot of the aspects of running a business have overwhelmed me and they're like, not the fun things, right?
[00:27:44] It's like I feel like I'm like making boxes and like. Creating spreadsheets and paying taxes and, you know, renewing my insurance and just like all this stuff that's like no fun um,
[00:27:57] Azhelle Wade: very
[00:27:58] expensive and no fun. Right?
[00:28:01] April Hail: and it's kind of lonely too. Like that's something that I almost forget how much that has impacted me. But once in a while I'll like have a, a reason to socialize with people and I'm like, oh, I forgot this is, this is what it was like to have a workplace where, Yeah, like as a teacher, I used to dread going back to school in the fall, but those first couple days I would see all these familiar faces and it's like, you get, I, I at least got, you know, kind of recharged by having that interaction.
[00:28:29] And now it's very isolating and it's hard to measure your success because you're just kind of doing it on your own. So yeah, I'm ups and downs for sure.
[00:28:40] Azhelle Wade: no, I, I totally under understand that and agree. It's almost like hiring someone for your business would be beneficial for you in emotional
[00:28:47] April Hail: Yeah. Like, come, come be my
[00:28:49] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. It's hard though. Like we forget, I don't know, I guess creatives sometimes think like, I just wanna be alone so I can create, and that's
[00:28:59] April Hail: And there's a time for
[00:29:00] Azhelle Wade: yeah, But
[00:29:01] when you're alone all the time, you're just like, we're
[00:29:04] April Hail: Uhhuh like,
[00:29:06] Azhelle Wade: we're all the people.
[00:29:07] April Hail: right? Like somebody bring news of the outside
[00:29:10] Azhelle Wade: Yeah, that is how do you stay up to date when you are alone all the time and you are focused, like how do you come up with ideas for your toy brand if you aren't like out in the world seeing things and hanging out with how do you do it?
[00:29:24] April Hail: How do I do it? Oh gosh. I don't know. I feel like I'm sort of bummed out this Christmas because I don't have anything new. I don't have like new products to launch, and I'm like, , I'll only start sort of coming around to the fact that people like have whole manufacturing calendars and like promotional calendars and like they're thinking of next Christmas already, right?
[00:29:44] Like I'm very just sort of like spontaneous, like, oh, this would be a fun idea. And then I find myself where I am now, which is like, oh shoot, I should have had something cool to, to reveal for the holidays and I'm just pushing old stuff, which is like not that fun. I don't know, but I kind of just wait for inspiration to strike.
[00:30:01] Or like if there's an artist that I really wanna work with, sometimes we'll just find something to collaborate on. I also have products that I've, like, have been on the back burner for years. Like I have a book that's I've been waiting like two years to publish and just like haven't gotten it together.
[00:30:15] You know, cuz it's like every day it's like you have your a hundred things to do and the urgent things are the ones that are attended to. And,
[00:30:24] Azhelle Wade: I mean, I
[00:30:25] I, I'm curious to know. ,if Kiki Kow were to grow into, in, into success just for the next six months,
[00:30:32] not like the ultimate success it we'll ever achieve, but if it were to keep progressing I assume that would be more sales, right?
[00:30:40] April Hail: So it's fun. I mean, I, I think it's important, again, as an entrepreneur, you have to like, sort of check yourself and be like, what is my barometer for success? And I realize that like, and I know a lot of other small business owners and there is a lot of that pressure, like, okay, growth me success means growth.
[00:30:55] It means getting bigger, selling more, having more stuff offer, et cetera. But I realize that that mindset, it's. Making me very, I mean, I've been kind of grumpy for the last few months, and I think a lot of it's just like, it just feels like a climb, you know? And so I'm trying to be more sensitive to like, okay, well, what would actually give me a more balanced life that I can feel like, yes, this thing is going, it's still modestly profitable, but I, it's also giving me the freedom to.
[00:31:26] you know, do other things that I wanna do and not keeping me up at night. And
[00:31:30] Azhelle Wade: But how are you doing that without hiring ? You have to hire to
[00:31:34] April Hail: Well, I know, right? I have a part-time helper who's lovely, you know, just a few hours of week, but I'm hoping she can take on more in the spring when her son starts school. I, but honestly, I, I'm thinking I'm just gonna like pair back my product selection right now.
[00:31:49] It's like at about 30 things. I'm like, maybe we'll just hone in on the things that do well. It'll. , it'll be less money coming in, but it'll also be less work. It'll be fewer boxes all cluttering at my house and like stressing me out.
[00:32:02] Azhelle Wade: If it really will be less money coming in because if you reduce to the right products, like, like, like if I'm looking at your website, you have several, I mean, I know you won't get rid of the food sets, all of them cuz they're all so different. But you have like many different puzzles, many different types of.
[00:32:20] Vehicles. And I, I feel like wouldn't somebody just buy something else , you know, if you
[00:32:25] April Hail: Maybe, I mean, like they say, like you can either sell new stuff to the same people, right? Like I can keep my audience as it is and try like, keep coming up with new stuff to offer them, or you can sell the same stuff to new people. So a lot of that hinges basically on the visitor industry here. For example, we used to have a huge.
[00:32:46] Influx of Japanese tourists and those were prior spending. There was, those were like the prize tourists here, but cause of covid and, you know, the economy there and just the rules around quarantining and all of that, that hasn't rebounded yet. So a lot of, you know, how my business is, and a lot of local businesses kind of ride out the next few years is dependent on that tourist.
[00:33:10] Azhelle Wade: Have you gone to toy trade shows with your brand at all?
[00:33:14] April Hail: Not with a brand. The only show I went to is at the Astra Show in Long Beach that I saw you at, and I was just kind of there to scope out the territory and see if it's something that I wanted to do. To be honest I mean, first of all, it's a, it's an investment, right? You gotta physically get there.
[00:33:31] You need somebody, at least one or two people to help you. You need to like, have a setup your product. I honestly, I'm not sure how. This sounds like stupid, but how ready? , I mean, like mainstream Amer, like I had thought, oh, you know, people want more diversity in their toys. They wanna expose their kids to different global perspectives and whatever.
[00:33:54] you know, when I go to the Continental US I'm kind of reminded that a lot of it is quite homogenous. And there are places like California, like New York Chicago, that have, you know, a lot of diversity, but a lot of the countries still, you know, not that mixed. And so I'm not, I'm just a little tentative about making that investment and really going for it.
[00:34:18] And, and maybe not really being heard.
[00:34:22] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. Maybe it's not, I mean, I'm sure if you went to the show you might have met some small retailers that you could have a conversation with. I think it's, it's worth just having a conversation to say, is this something you would even be interested? Because the Astra community is very close knit. So
[00:34:39] April Hail: Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm.
[00:34:41] Azhelle Wade: if a handful of small retailers that are a member of that community, you know, what do you think about this brand?
[00:34:46] Here's what it sells. Like in Hawaii here, I don't know if you have sales data anywhere in the Continental US Cause you said you had a distributor there or you have a distributor
[00:34:56] April Hail: I don't have a distributor. I have a fulfillment
[00:34:58] Azhelle Wade: Oh, a
[00:34:58] f oh, a
[00:34:59] April Hail: and then, and then I get a lot of orders that are just word of mouth. I don't know how they find
[00:35:04] Azhelle Wade: like on in the US
[00:35:06] April Hail: Uhhuh
[00:35:08] Azhelle Wade: Interest.
[00:35:09] April Hail: Like website orders. But like, to be honest with you I had a conversation with someone who like from a Midwest boutique, and she was like, I love your stuff, but I, I just don't think, like diversity doesn't play well in my store.
[00:35:20] I've,
[00:35:21] Azhelle Wade: interesting.
[00:35:22] she was telling me how she had like little. Caucasian baby dolls. Right. And she got like a couple, a black baby dolls to mix in with it. And she said it took like months and months to turn those over.
[00:35:33] Azhelle Wade: The same thing from another Midwest store owner as
[00:35:37] April Hail: yeah.
[00:35:37] Azhelle Wade: Yeah, unfortunately. So
[00:35:39] April Hail: And of course, you know, America is big America, like every state has its
[00:35:44] Azhelle Wade: store is different. Every state's.
[00:35:46] April Hail: but you know, it was disheartening to be like, oh wow, I really like, I don't.
[00:35:51] Azhelle Wade: So have you thought about, or maybe you have already done this, like focusing on more marketing opportunities that might be free, like getting yourself booked on podcasts or selected for top Toys of the year list to drive more sales to your website?
[00:36:04] April Hail: I should, I, again, like , I should hire someone to do that stuff for me because I, yeah,
[00:36:12] Azhelle Wade: Timing.
[00:36:13] April Hail: yeah. There's just not enough, you know, and I still have two little kids. But you know, I think that your priorities change right when you have. Very short time with these little people in your life.
[00:36:25] And
[00:36:25] you know, like once they're home, I don't get any work done and on the weekends and they're two holidays this week. And I wish I had started a company in my twenties when I had no dependent, but we are where we are.
[00:36:38] Azhelle Wade: I mean, I hear that people say your kids drive you to do like things you never thought you'd be able to do before,
[00:36:44] April Hail: totally. Yeah.
[00:36:45] Azhelle Wade: you wouldn't have even gotten here.
[00:36:48] April Hail: I certainly wouldn't have, have had the idea. I mean
[00:36:51] Azhelle Wade: well, you know, let me know if you ever wanna get on media stuff, cuz we can make that happen. So what
[00:36:56] April Hail: I should get into that.
[00:36:58] Azhelle Wade: Yeah, no, we can, we definitely have done that before. So what is the best piece of advice you would give to somebody listening that might have a really niche idea and they're not sure it's worth starting?
[00:37:09] April Hail: I mean, just start small and test it out within your community, right? Like I, I guess I was lucky in that I had this big but small local community of people that were sort of ready for this product and, and toys in Hawaii had not been updated since probably like the seventies or eighties. . And I think, yeah, if you go on, if you go on Facebook, like sometimes people will be like, oh, I wanna write a book about like this sort of special needs issue.
[00:37:35] Or I want to create something that serves a pretty niche purpose. Like that can be awesome, but you need to find your people, right? Like you need to hone in and not cast the net too wide. Or else you'll be disappointed and all of your marketing dollars will be eaten up, like targeting the wrong people.
[00:37:51] I don't know if that's that
[00:37:52] Azhelle Wade: No, I,
[00:37:52] think that's so true. Yeah,
[00:37:54] April Hail: I, I was, I was not very intentional in growing my business. And so, A lot of it happened organically and out of good luck in timing. . So I I, one piece of advice that's like different that I would give is to definitely call on experts to fill in the gaps in your knowledge.
[00:38:10] So I was so excited when I found out that you and your program existed. Cause I was like, oh my God, this is what I need, like a mentor, somebody to answer all my questions. And then you actually guided me to some other industry. Consultants and professionals who have been really helpful, even just, you know, I'll just get a list together of questions about manufacturing or about distribution or whatever.
[00:38:30] And then have a call with one of those people. And it's a worthwhile investment because it gives you peace of mind. It makes you feel like you're not just groping around in the dark, like googling your way through
[00:38:40] everything,
[00:38:41] Azhelle Wade: Google is
[00:38:42] April Hail: then lets you,
[00:38:43] Azhelle Wade: the answer.
[00:38:44] not always the answer.
[00:38:46] I, I wanted to follow up. So when you first started, you might not realize what you were doing, but you, I guess, at the time, a mom in Hawaii, were you a part of like mom groups or something specific on Facebook or on Instagram where you
[00:39:01] April Hail: Um, a little bit.
[00:39:02] Azhelle Wade: Yes.
[00:39:03] April Hail: I'm trying to remember about how I reached out. Honestly, I feel like Instagram was super helpful.
[00:39:10] Azhelle Wade: But was it the hashtags or, or the companies you were tagging to connect with?
[00:39:17] April Hail: I don't think I was doing either. I, it was I, I, I don't know. I think it was good timing. Like I said, you know, I see so many small businesses launch here and they're creating something that's like very similar to something that exists, but with a little twists, right? Like baby clothes or Yeah, other locally themed like products, but that exist in a lot of other iterations.
[00:39:41] Iterations or jewelry for example. And I think, oh my God, like what a huge marketing challenge it is to get that and distinguish yourself, you know, really stand apart from the rest and justify your price point and all that. I honestly feel like I got lucky and that I was just doing something. That nobody else is doing.
[00:39:59] And so there was very little competition there. Um, So as much as you can like be original and, and maybe even niche down to be more specific to your audience rather than trying to be relevant to everybody at least for me was helpful.
[00:40:14] Azhelle Wade: I think that for somebody that doesn't get lucky and happen to choose an idea that isn't developed, you should make sure that you're looking. The market and, and just seeing what is the white space. So let's say April had thought, oh, my kids like love, I don't know, mac and cheese, and I can't find any wooden mac and cheese sets.
[00:40:33] Like where are they? You know, let's say she'd done that and then she would've done some research and said, oh, there's already out there. I'll just buy these. But she could've gone further and said, oh, but there's. Mac and cheese that's specific to our culture. Or there's actually like, I don't know, mac and cheese that's specific to our culture designed by people from our culture.
[00:40:51] Those are likethree layers deep that
[00:40:53] you could go deeper and deeper. So now it's not a a toy company cuz first layer is a toy company that produces a specific food wooden puzzle set. Second layer is a toy company that produces a specific food wooden puzzle set based around a specific culture.
[00:41:07] And then next layer. A company that produces all of that by artists that are from that specific place or culture. So I
[00:41:17] think that's what you did. Right? And then what.
[00:41:19] April Hail: also finding the people who can amplify that message on your behalf. Right. So one thing I forgot to mention about Instagram is that you know, I would find, and I still find like micro influencers or people who. You know, like say it's like a multicultural mom in Hawaii who has small children and happens to take cute photos you know, that's a good person to work with because they're gonna create content for you.
[00:41:44] They're gonna share your product with their audience et cetera, et cetera. So it can, you know, you can sort of expand your, your reach
[00:41:51] Azhelle Wade: So how did you find them and what did you do and how much did it cost you? Like tell us that.
[00:41:57] April Hail: You just waste hours and hours of your life on social media.
[00:42:01] Azhelle Wade: Yeah.
[00:42:02] April Hail: I haven't even begun to tap like YouTube like, because I personally am not a YouTuber, but once in a while I'll go on and I'll be like, oh my God. There are all these like kids who just play and other kids watch them playing with toys or like these families who people watch their vlogs all day.
[00:42:18] And. , those are great people for, you know, for sharing your product. And I just haven't even gone down that rabbit hole. But if you, you know, have the time to invest into it. And then like anything, it's a numbers game. You reach out to a bunch of people and offer what you can offer, whether it's free product or, or payment or whatever.
[00:42:35] And then you see who, who bites and try to go from there.
[00:42:40] Azhelle Wade: And that's what you did, you would just reach out first, email, say, Hey, I have this amazing product. Would love to get a shout out on your Instagram for an exchange of money or more product. Yeah,
[00:42:51] April Hail: Yeah. And it's not very systematic. It's more like I'll just encounter someone or something. Like a couple days ago I saw a book advertised on Instagram that I was like, oh, that would pair well with this other product that we have, like let's do a giveaway together. And she was like, sure, great idea.
[00:43:06] Like, and yeah, so other small businesses. Sort of helping each other out, especially if it's like an adjacent but non-competing product. That's a great way to, you know, to get more eyeballs on your stuff.
[00:43:18] Azhelle Wade: much of that did you do early on? Was it like every month? How often would you do that?
[00:43:23] April Hail: It was not, it was not organized, Michelle. It was just like when the mood struck . When I happeneds, you know?
[00:43:31] Azhelle Wade: Yeah.
[00:43:33] April Hail: Yeah. It was, yeah.
[00:43:37] Azhelle Wade: so funny. Oh my gosh. So what
[00:43:41] April Hail: I should be like an art teacher in middle school like this,
[00:43:45] Azhelle Wade: Did you make that decision on whether or not you were gonna change your name? Because I know you played around with the idea of changing Kiki Cow.
[00:43:51] Cow.
[00:43:51] April Hail: you meant my name. Um, Hence still, you know what? It's funny. I applied for a trademark for the other brand that I told you about, and I like secured the Instagram, but then I just like got too busy doing stuff for geeky Kro. So it hasn't happened yet. And to be honest, like, like you say, like.
[00:44:07] You need money to make money, right? People say if you really wanna grow in big ways, you need to take on investment or borrow money, or whatever. And as I think back to like, what is gonna make my life less stressful, not more stressful, I don't think owing anyone money or like spending other people's money is gonna.
[00:44:26] Azhelle Wade: Bring
[00:44:26] April Hail: any stress from me. I feel like I, I just don't like the idea of being in that position for now at least. And so I'm just kind of taking it slow and not
[00:44:35] Azhelle Wade: Not freaking out about it.
[00:44:37] April Hail: yeah, not trying to like make it happen.
[00:44:39] Azhelle Wade: Okay, So the last question I wanna ask from you is, what toy blew your mind as a kid?
[00:44:49] April Hail: So I was obsessed with American Girl Dolls which at back in my day there were like five dolls. They were all based on like historical American periods. They all had their matching books. I remember I like blew through the books in like one week. All of the books. There were five books, I think Per Girl.
[00:45:04] And then they had this catalog that was like my bible, like . I would just pour through this catalog of like, and. Like uber expensive doll stuff. But I did end up getting over a series of Christmases. I got a Samantha and an Addie and then like, and then they had like a make your own, which I did.
[00:45:22] And looking back, she looked, she was kind of like the Hawaiian standard of beauty, which is funny. She had like long, like puffy hair and darker skin. And I was like, oh, that's interesting that I chose that. But I, you know, I love the stories and I loved that there was that interplay of like the reading and the characters.
[00:45:39] And I honestly retained more American history from those books
[00:45:41] than like, from actual school. I think. But yeah, and, and it's funny, I think I told you before, my mom at the time, she was like, when you grow up you should like do something like, like create a company like that. It was like, okay, like
[00:45:52] Azhelle Wade: Wow.
[00:45:53] April Hail: let's do real.
[00:45:54] And like, obviously I'm a tiny one person company now, but I do feel like it's sort of, there's a sort of you know, echo of that in what I do now and this creating products that sort of reflect the diversity of America. And that's what American girl. At the time and, and it's, you know, it's kind of grown into something more massive than that today.
[00:46:14] But but yeah, it's kind of funny how things come full circle,
[00:46:17] Azhelle Wade: That's amazing. Okay. American Girl Dolls check. Got it. Oh, April. Thanks for coming on the podcast today and sharing your toy story with us.
[00:46:25] April Hail: Oh, thank you so much. And thank you for providing so many resources for people like me who are just trying to figure it out.
[00:46:32] Azhelle Wade: yes, it's my pleasure. All right. Take.
[00:46:35] Well, there you have it, toy People. My interview with April Hail of Keiki Kaukau
[00:46:41] what I hope you take away from this episode is this, the riches are in the niches as they say. There is a lot of value in even really niche toy brands or toy companies. What you've gotta do is pair down and really get to know your I T M or ideal target market to help you develop a strong following behind your brand. If you love this podcast and you haven't already left a review, what are you waiting for? I get a note on my phone every time a new review comes through and it keeps me motivated and inspired to keep coming back week after week with great solo episodes and interview episodes to tell you all about making it in the toy industry.
[00:47:22] So wherever you are right now listening to this podcast, I would love it if you would scroll down, look for where you can leave a review and leave an amazing review for this podcast. As always, thank you so much for joining me here today. I know there are a ton of podcasts out there, so it truly means the world to me that you tune into this one.
[00:47:43] Until next week, I'll see you later Toy.
-
🎓Learn more about how you can develop and pitch your toy idea with Toy Creators Academy® by clicking here to visit toycreatorsacademy.com and join the waitlist.
Not ready for the Toy Creators Academy online course? Start by connecting with fellow toy creators inside our online community. Click here to join.