#268: The Truth Behind Being A Game Inventor with Jeremy Posner
Behind every “yes” in the toy industry, there’s a mountain of “no’s,” countless hours of hustle, and more trial and error than most people expect. At one point, he came close to walking away from it all—until a single line from an episode of Bluey reminded him that making games was exactly what he was meant to do.
In this episode Making It In The Toy Industry, I’m joined by the incredibly talented Jeremy Posner, owner of Shenanigans Toys and Games, the inventor behind hit games like Beagle or Bagel, Bears in Barrels, and Piggy Piggy. He’s been named to the Mojo Nation 100 SIX times, won Game Innovator of the Year at the TAGIEs, and has worked with some of the biggest names in the toy industry like Hasbro, Mattel, and Spin Master. But here's the plot twist: it took Jeremy EIGHT years to meet his royalty goals. And that’s after winning major awards and getting meetings with big companies right out the gate.
You’re gonna hear why just licensing a game doesn’t mean you’ve made it, what really makes a game “sellable” to toy companies, and why most ideas just don’t cut it. Jeremy also explained the real deal with royalties or advances, and how long it actually takes to see a check. He even shared how he trained his brain to be more creative (yes, that’s a thing!).
Dreaming of creating the next game night hit or just curious what it really takes to make it in toys and games?
Hit play and steal a few smart moves for your next big creative leap.
Listen For These Important Moments
[00:03:07] - Despite early wins, including a TAGIE award and a background at Big Monster Toys, Jeremy didn’t hit his financial goals from game licensing until eight years in.
[00:11:17] - After Toy Fair, Jeremy reflects on the silence that often follows a pitch. He explains how learning why you’re hearing “no” (and from whom) is key to improving your ideas and not losing steam.
[00:23:00] - Around year four, Jeremy stopped “just creating” and started strategically designing evergreens. He audited his creative process, studied the brain, and trained himself to boost creative output daily.
[00:33:04] - Jeremy tests tons of game ideas fast by building quick, minimum viable prototypes. He runs super short playtests to see what’s worth developing and keep his creativity flowing.
[00:40:35] - Near the end of the episode, Jeremy shares his dream of designing fan experiences for sports teams and creating original game shows, proving he’s still dreaming big, even after major success in toys and games.
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This episode is brought to you by www.thetoycoach.com
Connect with Jeremy and follow his journey as a professional game inventor? Follow him on LinkedIn
Curious about the games Jeremy’s created or want to pitch a collaboration? Visit ShenanigansToysAndGames.com
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[00:00:00] Azhelle Wade: You are listening to Making It in The Toy Industry, episode number 268.
[00:00:11] Welcome to Making It In The Toy Industry, a podcast for inventors, entrepreneurs, and makers like you. And now your host, Azhelle Wade.
[00:00:23] Azhelle Wade: Hey there, toy people. Azhelle Wade here and welcome back to another episode of Making It in the Toy Industry. This is a weekly podcast brought to you by TheToyCoach.com.
[00:00:34] Azhelle Wade: Ladies and gentlemen, our guest today has been making families laugh, bond, and probably fight a little over game night for years now, his game design's been played in living rooms across the world. He's negotiated deals at companies big and small for himself. He's the inventor behind hits like Beagle or Bagel, Bears in Barrels, Blue-Orange and Piggy Piggy. He has been named in the Mojo 106 years in a row. One game, innovator of the Year at the Taggy’s, and today he's here to share the honest truth about making it as a game inventor. Give it up for the one and the only, Jeremy Posner. Welcome to the show.
[00:01:10] Jeremy Posner: Hi everyone. That was lovely.
[00:01:11] Azhelle Wade: Yeah, I did that.
[00:01:11] Jeremy Posner: Thanks, Azhelle.
[00:01:13] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. Well, I had to give you a special intro because I tease you for sounding like John Mulaney, so I thought if I--
[00:01:20] Jeremy Posner: Yes. No, that's fair. That's very--
[00:01:22] Azhelle Wade: If I made you like a comedic drama intro, it would just be fitting, you know.
[00:01:26] Jeremy Posner: I'll take it.
[00:01:26] Azhelle Wade: So, okay. So my husband always tells me that I'm the only one that thinks you sound like John Mulaney, but, um.
[00:01:32] Jeremy Posner: I've heard it before. I've, I've definitely heard it before. So you're not the only person, but--
[00:01:35] Azhelle Wade: Love it.
[00:01:36] Jeremy Posner: Yeah. It's, especially if I turn it on, it can get there. But this is not a John Mulaney podcast. I was on, I was on one of those last week.
[00:01:42] Azhelle Wade: Wait, what do you mean? Why were you on a John Mulaney? Okay.
[00:01:44] Jeremy Posner: I was not on a John Mula--. Uh, first of all, I don't know what a John Mulany podcast is or what they would do.
[00:01:49] Azhelle Wade: He does have like, live with whatever. I'm gonna get you to say, this is John Mulany and the toy coach is the best toy coach in the world. And then I'm going to just use that stuff.
[00:01:57] Jeremy Posner: That I feel like I might get in trouble.
[00:01:59] Azhelle Wade: Mark a.. a little bit little.
[00:02:03] Jeremy Posner: Okay, this is not John Mulany and just the Toy Coach Azhelle's great.
[00:02:09] Azhelle Wade: This is not John Mulaney, I promise I will stop with the John Mulaney comparisons for now. But he is one of my favorite comedians. Um, but I had to give you that grand intro 'cause in a way you're kind of a performer.
[00:02:20] Azhelle Wade: You know, your stage just happens to be games. You're creating experiences that bring people together, make them laugh. But what most people don't see is the journey behind it, the hours of rejection, the persistence that it actually takes to make it as a game inventor. So I wanna start there because I think so many people see the fun side, but don't really realize how tough this industry can be.
[00:02:42] Azhelle Wade: And then people that realize how tough it can be, may wonder why the heck anybody would still do it. So I feel like you're the perfect person to talk about.
[00:02:50] Jeremy Posner: Yeah.
[00:02:51] Azhelle Wade: Both sides of that.
[00:02:51] Jeremy Posner: Yeah, absolutely. No, it is by no means not a struggle. If they want, if you wanna double or triple or I don't know how many negatives that was in a row.
[00:02:58] Jeremy Posner: It, it's, there is--
[00:02:58] Azhelle Wade: No means not a struggle.
[00:03:00] Jeremy Posner: It very much is challenging. I started my company eight years ago. The past two quarters were the first two quarters that I hit my royalty goals.
[00:03:07] Azhelle Wade: Oh, wow.
[00:03:08] Jeremy Posner: First two consecutive quarters that I've hit my royalty goals. So it's been, it's been a while.
[00:03:11] Azhelle Wade: How, how grandiose were your royalty goals?
[00:03:14] Jeremy Posner: I mean, I would like to fully support my family on my royalties and yeah, they're high, but not crazy high. Like I'm trying to, yeah, I would like to more than survive.
[00:03:24] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. I mean, you and the rest of America.
[00:03:26] Jeremy Posner: Fair.
[00:03:27] Azhelle Wade: I'd like to kick things off by saying, by having you finish this sentence for me. The thing that surprised me most about the toy industry was?
[00:03:34] Jeremy Posner: It's interesting. I would say the discrepancies in trust between the toy industry and the game industry.
[00:03:40] Azhelle Wade: Wait, what?
[00:03:41] Jeremy Posner: So I started in Toys I used to work, um, before I started my company, I was a big monster Toys for five years. Before that I was at Ray Camper Invention and Design. And in toys people are very secretive. People are, are, this doesn't leave the building, like, don't talk about this outside of work. All, all of that. Like, there's no way you would tell another toy inventor the toy that you're working on. And in games it's so much of just like, oh, here's my game. Play it with me. Like here's literally all of this.
[00:04:11] Jeremy Posner: The secret sauce. What, what do you think? And like, it's been really weird seeing both sides. 'cause like, I don't know if I ever made a formal decision to be like, I do more games now than toys. I have, like if you look at the wall behind me, it's like pretty much all games. And I've, I've one toy that has done fine.
[00:04:27] Jeremy Posner: Done great. It's Jetzels, it was my first license ever. But, um. I've definitely done a lot more games than I have toys, but when I first got into games, I feel like there was a lot of like. Me trying to be so super secretive. I followed some, like practices that I saw at my previous jobs and there's a lot of like, oh, I don't wanna show that right here.
[00:04:46] Jeremy Posner: 'cause we're out in the open. And it's like, no one really who's, who's actually–
[00:04:48] Azhelle Wade: Really?
[00:04:49] Jeremy Posner: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I used to get disclosure signed for every single item that I showed in every single meeting.
[00:04:55] Azhelle Wade: Wow.
[00:04:56] Jeremy Posner: It was, I'm amazed people met with me. Um. I don't know. It's, I, I just thought that was very interesting to see it on both sides.
[00:05:02] Azhelle Wade: That is, that is interesting, huh? Well, I wanna first talk about the harsh realities of being a toy and game inventor. So let's start with the truth. It's not an easy industry to break into. You said you actually worked. For a toy company first.
[00:05:15] Jeremy Posner: Yeah. So the route that I took my path of like into the game industry as, as a like well-known game designer.
[00:05:20] Azhelle Wade: Right?
[00:05:21] Jeremy Posner: Or not well-known, but wherever I am, however I got here.
[00:05:23] Azhelle Wade: You're pretty known.
[00:05:24] Jeremy Posner: Thank you. That's a compliment, thank you. People have heard your name before probably--
[00:05:29] Azhelle Wade: People who’ve heard your voice, maybe not on you but.
[00:05:31] Jeremy Posner: Nice. You, you said you were done.
[00:05:34] Azhelle Wade: I lied.
[00:05:36] Jeremy Posner: The, so I got very lucky of like getting into the toy industry. So I won my TAG in 2016 for Game Innovator of the Year. I was still working at Big Monster Toys at the time.
[00:05:44] Azhelle Wade: Oh. I didn't.
[00:05:45] Jeremy Posner: Um, and so when I left there, I had like two really big anyone will work with me vouchers of–
[00:05:51] Azhelle Wade: Oh wow.
[00:05:52] Jeremy Posner: I was the Taggy 2016 Game Innovator of the Year. And also I used to work at Big Monster Toys.
[00:05:56] Jeremy Posner: And like along with that, I mean I've had like probably seven or eight games that I could claim were mine-ish like, like games that I was like the lead designer or, or one of the co-creators on at BMT. So like getting a meeting with Hasbro normally is like a very hard part for most game inventors.
[00:06:12] Jeremy Posner: And for me it was, that wasn't necessarily the hard part for me, but weirdly, if I could go back and do it all again, yes, like that was a very nice leg up and a great advantage. But like the delay in how long it takes to start making money, just to be like, okay, I'm gonna go license games now. Mm. I'm gonna make no royalties for at least two years.
[00:06:31] Jeremy Posner: Like, like there's, even if you license something right away. It's like, okay, you license it right away and then it still has to come out.
[00:06:38] Azhelle Wade: They have to develop it.
[00:06:39] Jeremy Posner: And then it still has to pay off its advance. And yeah. And it has to sell and it has to do all of these things. And, and so if I, yeah. If I could start the process again, I would love to like go back and actually use my degree in mechanical engineering. Like go get like an engineering job. Oh. And then design games on the side. But also, like, if I did that, like I didn't know I wanted to do games when I left college.
[00:06:59] Jeremy Posner: Like, I thought I wanted to work in toys and I did. And I, it was, it was when I was at Big Monster Toys, like about half of the items I was doing were games and I was getting like more and more into game design. Um, and so essentially like I could have gone and gotten a job, like in, I could have gotten a job like at a, with, with a board game company, but no matter where I work, there would be some amount of hand tying of what I can't do.
[00:07:23] Azhelle Wade: Exactly.
[00:07:23] Jeremy Posner: And I didn't want any of that. And so I actually, last year for a while I was like looking at getting a job. We needed insurance for my family. And so I had, I briefly got a job in sales and like
[00:07:32] Azhelle Wade: You did.
[00:07:33] Jeremy Posner: Then I did. I did. Um, I was there for a month. It was a horrible experience. And then Bandit from Bluey told me that I should be inventing games. So, uh, I took a sign from the universe. And so like last year right before GenCon, I was trying to decide, I was like, do I quit my job and just focus on games? 'cause I'm hating every second of this and like I can like save it and blah, blah, blah, blah. And then I was watching an episode of Bluey with my wife and my son.
[00:07:58] Jeremy Posner: And in the episode like Bandit keeps trying to leave and blue and Bingo are like, no, stay. Play with us. Play with us. And eventually he's like, I have to go. I have to do my job. And Bluey says, well, what's my job? And Bandit, who I should mention, is like the ideal father in my mind. Like he's like, if I never know what to do, he is like, what would Bandit do in this parenting situation?
[00:08:16] Jeremy Posner: Bandit goes. Your job is to make games And like, I'm like in this like weird lost place. Like, what am I doing the right thing? It's like, all right, bandit said it. That's what I'm doing now. Fortunately, my wife got an awesome job that got us benefits and so now like, everything's perfect. And I'm very happy with all of it, but, uh.
[00:08:32] Azhelle Wade: Oh, that's so great. You know, it's, it's always better that we don't know what we're getting into when we jump into it. 'cause like I also would like to invent more things on the side, but what people don't realize is when you. Do something like start a business or take on a side hustle, your time gets completely monopolized.
[00:08:48] Azhelle Wade: And you think like, oh yeah, but like, I have free time on the weekends or at night, and you're no, like, you have no brain power left. So had you done that, you may not even have gotten to where you are today.
[00:09:00] Jeremy Posner: Oh yeah. I don't, I don't think I would, I give it as advice that I didn't take--
[00:09:02] Azhelle Wade: You would not even take.
[00:09:04] Jeremy Posner: Didn't do. But
[00:09:05] Azhelle Wade: You didn't do it.
[00:09:06] Jeremy Posner: Well, I.
[00:09:06] Azhelle Wade: And you probably wouldn't do it.
[00:09:08] Jeremy Posner: Well, I, I, I think, I think if I knew that like I wanted to license games. Like if I had, if I knew everything I knew now. And went back, because like when I went back to like, look for a job, I was like, okay, can I get a job using my engineering degree?
[00:09:18] Jeremy Posner:. And what I found was I could get a job as a starting engineer, but like I'd be a 36-year-old starting engineer. And everyone else my age was like a senior engineer. They've, they've focused on something.. And specialized. And it's like, oh.
[00:09:31] Azhelle Wade: You have to do what you actually wanna do. Unfortunately, like money does control a lot of what we can experience in life, obviously. But at the end of the day, if you're not willing to give up on your dream and you just try to split your attention, you're probably just not gonna get either way. You're not gonna get the money that you want from the stable job, and you're not even gonna hit the dream that you want. You're just gonna be in this in between. So you had to suffer a bit, but you suffered and you came out on the other side.
[00:09:55] Jeremy Posner: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. It was rocky. It was, I would, I mean, one of the other hard parts, and obviously this isn't gonna affect everyone, but I, I, I suffer from migraines and like the financial stresses and the stress of just like running a business. Like very much got like affect my head. And so there's a lot of, a lot of days where I'm--
[00:10:14] Azhelle Wade: Migraine down.
[00:10:15] Jeremy Posner: Less effective than I would've been. And all of this. And so maybe for me, because these high stress moments are more likely to cause me migraines, it would've been better to dip my toe in and go that direction. Whereas if someone is a risk taker and they want to dive in, it's dive inable, it's hard. It's hard.
[00:10:30] Azhelle Wade: I don’t know, I'm a risk taker, but I am also very anxious. And when I get very anxious from money and stress, I can't sleep and I still wanna do this. I don't know. I'm crazy, but like, I don't know. I'm like, I think it's worth it. I think it's worth it. You can't help but be who you are.
[00:10:51] Jeremy Posner: And I'm so thankful for making enough money to support my family doing what I love.
[00:10:55] Azhelle Wade: Well, yeah. Wait, well let me go, I.
[00:10:57] Jeremy Posner: That's outstanding.
[00:10:58] Azhelle Wade: I have to keep going 'cause we're not even gonna get to the good stuff.
[00:11:00] Jeremy Posner: Yes.
[00:11:01] Azhelle Wade: I still wanna talk about the hard stuff 'cause I recently, when we're talking is just after New York Toy Fair and recently a lot of my students have come back from that and some of them are feeling already rejected 'cause they're not getting the follow-up responses from the companies that express interest and all that stuff. And I'm like, it's early chill toy industry's having layoffs.
[00:11:20] Azhelle Wade: People are going through a lot right now. Just gives a minute, but rejection's a huge part of the business. And I'm sure a lot of people struggle with hearing no over and over again. So when you were in the middle of hearing all these nos, how did you push through those moments to keep doing what you're doing and feeling hopeful that there might be something on the other side?
[00:11:38] Jeremy Posner: Yeah, no, that, that's great. That's a great question. I think a lot of it was like figuring out. People's feedback. Like, like was one of the things that upset me a lot. Not upset me a lot, but not a huge fan of like, when you're in a room and, and you're pitching to x, y, z toy company and they're like, oh, that's so great. I love it. And then you're like, okay, cool. Like send me the video. And you send the video and then they never respond to you. 'cause they didn't actually like it and they were just trying to be nice. Protect your feelings. But you don't know like, 'cause it's free for them to say, I like it.
[00:12:06] Jeremy Posner: It's so, it's, it's figuring out who is giving you valid responses and then. Also like, like. People's feedback is crazily important too. 'cause like a lot of times if I'm showing a game and I keep hearing no, it's like, okay, that's one thing. But if I keep hearing no for the same reason?
[00:12:21] Jeremy Posner: Like, oh, okay, I need to do something about this game. And like, I had a huge light bulb moment. Ken Gruel and I self-published a game. It was called Bunch of Butts.
[00:12:30] Jeremy Posner: Um, it's okay. Yeah. You can look it up. It comes in a foam. It comes in a foam butt packaging. There it is behind me. Stuck to the wall. Um. But, uh, when we produced it, one of the things that we realized was like, okay, let's do it. It was a card game and we're like, it needs something more. And we ended up putting it in this, like foam butt card holder. And we're like, great, now it's sellable, blah, blah, blah.
[00:12:52] Jeremy Posner: And then, and we looked back and we're like, would we self-publish any of the other games? Like, no. Like I wouldn't self-publish it. 'cause like it doesn't have that, it's like. Why is anyone going to publish it if it doesn't have it? Like every single--
[00:13:03] Azhelle Wade: I call that like a toy addict element in, in this game at least it's got that like plastic piece that adds like a play pattern to it adds to the play experience.
[00:13:10] Jeremy Posner: Yeah. It's, it's a hook.. It's the thing that makes it sellable. That magic thing that makes someone want to engage with it. And so I started asking myself, like, obviously I'm not gonna self-publish every single idea that I have. But if I were a toy company, would I do this one? And some of 'em were like, no, 'cause it does this.
[00:13:26] Jeremy Posner: And it's like. That's why everyone else is saying no.
[00:13:28] Azhelle Wade: Interesting.
[00:13:29] Jeremy Posner: Like, like, it, it, it used to be so easy for me, just like iron over a problem of like, yeah, like there's this problem in the game, but like, oh, the rest of it's so great. And it's like, why'd no one do it? It's like, well, there is a problem there.
[00:13:39] Jeremy Posner: So hearing those no's, being able to like. Figure out what is valid. And like a lot of it is like who to listen to of like, there are certain people when I pitch to where it's like their feedbacks means way more to me than than other people I pitched this feedback. Oh my gosh. Because it's like, oh, like you are looking at this the right way.
[00:13:58] Jeremy Posner: And sometimes people will try and send you down a rabbit hole and sometimes they'll say they like it and if a lot of people are like, I like it, but no one asks for the prototype. Yeah. They didn't like it. They didn't.
[00:14:05] Azhelle Wade: I know that is a hard thing for people to understand.
[00:14:08] Jeremy Posner: Or at least like it didn't work for them, for the company. There's so many times where I'll pitch a game where it's like, I love this game and I would play it.
[00:14:14] Azhelle Wade: I would play it, but I.
[00:14:15] Jeremy Posner: It's not for our company.
[00:14:16] Azhelle Wade: That one is a very interesting one. I feel like new people in the industry don't take that one as a no. Even though it is a no, I think they hear it and they think, oh, but they love it and they don't realize like, yeah, but they just said it doesn't work it doesn't matter.
[00:14:30] Jeremy Posner: You could sell them a handmade prototype. Maybe it's not. It's not a great way to make money.
[00:14:36] Azhelle Wade: So what keeps you in the game? There are a lot of talented people that start this thing as a toy inventor, but they don't stay with it. What makes you keep going even when it's tough.
[00:14:46] Jeremy Posner: I think getting to do what I love is a big part of it. It's just very motivating to get to keep doing what I love. It's a very fun industry that feels like it was built for me, especially licensing wise. Like I'm a very ADHD person. I love like the fun first exciting part of a project.
[00:15:03] Jeremy Posner: Like, I don't wanna finish it. And like, if you don't look at like, the design of the game as the entire project, but like the manufacturing of it as the entire project. Then I just get to do the fun part where I make the game and then I get to go like, all right, now you take over. Now you take, and like there's contracts and other things that aren't the most fun in the world. Yeah. The fact that I just get to do the most fun part of that job over and over again. It's very exciting.
[00:15:26] Azhelle Wade: If somebody called you today and they were like, Jeremy, I want to be a game inventor, what is the first thing you would tell them?
[00:15:32] Jeremy Posner: Oh man, there's a lot. Um.
[00:15:35] Azhelle Wade: The first thing, would it be an encouragement, a warning? Little bit of both.
[00:15:40] Jeremy Posner: I, I would, I would say start as a side hustle.
[00:15:44] Azhelle Wade: Even though you didn't do that
[00:15:46] Jeremy Posner: Even though I didn't do it. If it's doable.
[00:15:47] Azhelle Wade: Even though that probably would've been the detriment of your success.
[00:15:50] Jeremy Posner: Yeah. No, I would've.
[00:15:51] Azhelle Wade: You see, look at you.
[00:15:52] Jeremy Posner: I, I get it. No, you're right.
[00:15:54] Azhelle Wade: Wow. Don't they ask him for advice? No kidding.
[00:15:56] Jeremy Posner: No. It's like.
[00:15:58] Azhelle Wade: Okay, wait, here's maybe how we have to frame it. If you can handle maybe not being able to feed your family for, what, seven years? Is that what you said?
[00:16:06] Jeremy Posner: Somewhere around there?
[00:16:08] Azhelle Wade: Maybe the stress of that, then, you could do it without a side hustle.
[00:16:13] Jeremy Posner: Yeah. No, no, no. And, and then the advice that I would have on top of that would be, get a lot of ideas.
[00:16:19] Jeremy Posner: Start with a ton of ideas, and pare down. Keep on creating idea after idea, after idea, after idea. Like figure out which cream has risen to the top.
[00:16:29] Azhelle Wade: By pitching all of them.
[00:16:30] Jeremy Posner: No, I, I, for every game that gets shown to a client, I would say, I mean, it depends what you count, like making a game of like, oh, I threw together a quick test and tabletop simulator for this game.
[00:16:40] Jeremy Posner: That's probably, I've probably made like 70 games for every one game that gets pitched.
[00:16:46] Azhelle Wade: Wow. Okay.
[00:16:46] Jeremy Posner: But like a lot of 'em are like, oh, would this work? Let me put it out. No, that's broken for this reason. But, or like, oh, does this work? Yeah, it works, but like, it wasn't fun at the first play test and it's not worth following and. So like, they're like starting with a lot so that you can be picky. Mm. Uh, is, is definitely helpful. But it requires a ton of creativity.
[00:17:06] Azhelle Wade: Mm. Interesting. Yeah. So you've worked with some of the biggest names in the industry. Mattel, Hasbro, Spin Master. Crazy. But I'm imagining at that level, even when you get there, it's not easy.
[00:17:19] Azhelle Wade: Even when you're in the, you said you got in the room with Hasbro immediately and it still wasn't easy. So what is the hardest part of, part of working in the space of bigger toy companies versus pitching to mid-size and smaller?
[00:17:30] Jeremy Posner: They definitely have higher standards, but there's a nice. Solution to that, where like if I license, not a great game to a small company that it's not going to make me money, I'll get in advance, but it'll just die before I make any money. And so, like, the game has to be great if it's gonna make me money, regardless of who it's licensed to. So it's really just made me kind of keep my quality up and up and up and up and up, which is, I think that it's, it's impossible to sign a bad game with someone big, not impossible, but it's hard to sign a bad game with someone big.
[00:18:02] Azhelle Wade: Okay, and now we're gonna get into your wins, but I wanna talk about misses, is there any game that you truly believed in, but then it flopped, it just didn't make it.
[00:18:10] Jeremy Posner: Yeah, I'll get excited about some stuff. There's like a million examples of this that I don't wanna share. 'cause like, I often go through my graveyard and like, oh, can I save it for this? Can I save? I have one that I'm happy to talk about.
[00:18:21] Azhelle Wade: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.
[00:18:22] Jeremy Posner: Um, it was a title for a game. It was a theme that I put on. I've since re themed because I realized it was an awful title.
[00:18:28] Azhelle Wade: Okay.
[00:18:29] Jeremy Posner: But the name of the game was The Old Ball game.
[00:18:32] Azhelle Wade: What does that mean?
[00:18:32] Jeremy Posner: Um, well, so it, it, it's a reference from the baseball song of like, take me out to the ball game team.
[00:18:38] Azhelle Wade: Oh, oh, oh. okay. The old ball game.
[00:18:41] Jeremy Posner: Like at the old ball game, but it was called The Old Ball Game, which reads very differently and like, obviously I was, I was playing on that and the. The game had a lot of like shriveled up, like basketballs and soccer balls in it. It was, it was a weird swing that I took for like a party card game that, yeah. And like I was so excited about it at the time, and, uh--
[00:19:02] Azhelle Wade: And people like, look at you like, are you all right, man?
[00:19:04] Jeremy Posner: Yeah. I'm just like, it's fun. Yeah. Like essentially it's like I got, I get the joke, but like, I'm not going to do this. It's like, oh, okay.
[00:19:15] Azhelle Wade: Oh, that's great. Were there any that like actually made it to market that flow that you can share?
[00:19:20] Jeremy Posner: Um.
[00:19:21] Azhelle Wade: Kind of throwing people under the bus but.
[00:19:23] Jeremy Posner: There, yeah, no, I, I will say just, just for full transparency, like getting a game on market is not the win. Like I remember I asked my old boss when I worked at Big Monster Toys and I said, Brian, Brian Kujawski, when do you celebrate the win?
[00:19:37] Jeremy Posner: Is it when something gets optioned? Is it when something gets licensed? Is it when the license is actually signed? Is it when they paid you the advance? What is it? And he said, if after Christmas it's not on clearance.
[00:19:47] Azhelle Wade: Oh, nice.
[00:19:49] Jeremy Posner: That's when he gets excited. Yeah. And it, and so like there's so many parts that you kinda have to wait through and so I mean, I have 32 games that have come out and more than half have never paid off their advance and will never pay off their advance.
[00:20:04] Azhelle Wade: Wow. Wow.
[00:20:04] Jeremy Posner: Like they just didn't get off the starting block.
[00:20:06] Azhelle Wade: You know, there's some newbies that listen to this episode. Will you just explain paying off the advance?
[00:20:11] Jeremy Posner: Yeah, so when you license a game, you will often get an advance if you're not offered advance, fight for it or if not, make sure that there's some time stop deadlines in your contract to get your idea back, because otherwise they can just say, we'll take it and not give you anything.
[00:20:25] Jeremy Posner: But it's an amount of money the company will pay you. Anywhere from, I've seen in the industry, low end, like a thousand dollars high end. I've seen in toys I've seen. Six digit advances and the advance, it's money that you get when you sign the contract or soon after signing the contract. But it all goes against future royalties.
[00:20:44] Jeremy Posner: So the first, if you get a $10,000 advance, the first $10,000 that that company would be paying you, you don't get because you already got it. Uh, and then so once you've paid off your advance, then you're making money on top of that advance. So you get your advance, and then your game slowly pays off its advance, or hopefully quickly pays off its advance, and then you start making more money on top of it.
[00:21:04] Azhelle Wade: Which is different from an option.
[00:21:07] Jeremy Posner: Yeah, yeah. So an option is essentially a company buying a first right of refusal. So they'll say, Hey, we'll give you $5,000 for a month to just hold the idea, not show this to anyone. And we get to do it if we decide we wanna do it, but we're not gonna give you anything else. But the option goes against the advance.
[00:21:23] Jeremy Posner: Which also goes against royalties. So if you've a $5,000 advance, then instead of getting a $15,000 Sorry, a $5,000 option, instead of getting a $15,000 advance, you might get a 10,000 advance.
[00:21:33] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. Great. Thank That was perfect. Alright. At the end of the day, would you say all this was worth it?
[00:21:39] Jeremy Posner: Yes.
[00:21:39] Azhelle Wade: Oh, that's nice.
[00:21:41] Jeremy Posner: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's.
[00:21:42] Azhelle Wade: Did it take eight years to feel that way, or like when did you--
[00:21:47] Jeremy Posner: It took a while. It, it, I mean, it's hard, but I mean, I, I'm very lucky to be where I am and to be doing what I'm doing and loving what I'm doing and I have a phenomenal family as well, and I, I'm, I'm a lucky guy.
[00:21:57] Azhelle Wade: Do you think you got better at game design and that's why things are–
[00:22:00] Jeremy Posner: Significantly.
[00:22:01] Azhelle Wade: Okay. I was gonna say, or did this, the, the opportunity finally came.
[00:22:05] Jeremy Posner: No, no, no, no. I, there was like a ton of work, like, like probably about four years ago I started actively trying to get better at my job as opposed to just doing it and hoping. Like, for like the first like three years, I was just like, I'll just keep making stuff. And think, and, and I--
[00:22:21] Azhelle Wade: That's the definition of sanity. Like just doing the same thing and–
[00:22:24] Jeremy Posner: Well, and like, I was getting some licenses, but like, I know at the end of my career. I will have made 80% of my money, maybe 95% of my money on like one to three titles.
[00:22:34] Jeremy Posner: Like it, it's gonna be all evergreens. And so I started aiming for evergreens of saying like, okay, if this thing can't be an evergreen, then why am I doing it? Like, all I want are the ones that are, that have the chance to be on shelf for this long. Um, so, so definitely changing for, aiming for that.
[00:22:51] Jeremy Posner: I audited my process a lot more of just like sat down and looked at what I was doing. And like, okay, where's the bottleneck? How can I work through this? How can I get better at this? And there's a lot of that. I started training creatively, which is like, I've borrowed from a few places and kind of made some of it up on my own.
[00:23:08] Jeremy Posner: Uh, with just like a, a ton of guess and check work of like how to get more output out of my brain. Um. So yeah, I've definitely gotten a lot better.
[00:23:19] Azhelle Wade: This is, no this is a very important thing to say. Like so many inventors, you, you know, the ones that like, are so passionate about the few ideas they have and they keep re-pitching them, re-pitching them, or they do come up with other ideas.
[00:23:29] Azhelle Wade: But you can see the way they develop them is the same, like the thought process behind it's the same and it's not quite enough. This is so important to tell those people that if it's been a few years and you've been through so many ideas and so many pitches and nothing is landing or very few is landing.
[00:23:46] Azhelle Wade: Maybe it's time to look at your process. Like maybe it's time to level up your skill. And that's nothing to be ashamed of. We all get better at, like if we had a full-time job, you wouldn't stay at the same level year after year. You would go up that ladder, you would get better at your job. So I think that whole section you just said is so important. Audit your process. Look at how to get more out of your brain creatively. That was great. Thank you so much for that.
[00:24:08] Jeremy Posner: Yeah, I teach creative methodology through board game design at Lawrence Tech. I've, I've done it for a couple years. It's a local college, and it's been very interesting, like teaching so many people how to do game design and going through all that process.
[00:24:21] Jeremy Posner: I've, I've learned a ton. And also, I don't know, I, I pick, like, I've listened to a lot of podcasts. I've, I've done like a lot of research on like how the brain works, so like specifically like, how does dopamine work? Because for me it was like, that was a crazy thing of like. I'm designing games, which are all trying to get essentially mainly dopamine spikes while people are playing and like, I don't know how it works.
[00:24:40] Jeremy Posner: That's insane. Like I'm spending all day trying to get dopamine spikes in people, but like, I don't know the basic, so like learning how the brain works was huge. The other piece of advice that I would say too of like if of, if someone's out there pitching the same game for a couple years and it's not catching on like.
[00:24:56] Jeremy Posner: There's a thing that I've learned in game design and, and this might be a bit hyperbolic, but essentially from what I've heard and seen is, that the first a hundred games that you design will be bad. Like get, get your first a hundred games out of the way. They're gonna be bad. There's a lot that you'll learn.
[00:25:12] Jeremy Posner: There's a lot that you'll figure out. And like if that first game you don't license, like you didn't lose. You learned exactly. It was a learning opportunity. Like what are all the things you saw happen in that Great take that build another thing. Yeah. Like, like it's, it, it's just there's so many shots that need to be taken.
[00:25:27] Azhelle Wade: No. That, that a hundred ideas trope is for anything. Yeah. I, I've heard that so many times in many industries. So your games, at least the older ones that I'm looking at, like the Barrel of Butts and things or is it wait, Bunch of Butts?
[00:25:40] Jeremy Posner: Bunch of Butts.
[00:25:40] Azhelle Wade: Bunch of Butts, Barrel of.
[00:25:41] Jeremy Posner: How dare you.
[00:25:42] Azhelle Wade: Was I mixing up two? I did. I blended two.
[00:25:44] Jeremy Posner: Well, there's Bears and Barrels.
[00:25:46] Azhelle Wade: Oh, Bears and Barrels and Bunch of Butts, wait.
[00:25:48] Jeremy Posner: And Bunch of Butts. There's also Beagle or Bagel. There's a lot of B letters.
[00:25:53] Azhelle Wade: Where do these quirky, weird ideas, the Piggy Piggy, like where does this come from? Are you just like going through a dictionary and just like, randomly, like, what are you doing?
[00:26:03] Jeremy Posner: Yeah, they, they all come from different places. So I've been working a lot on like, on my creative process too, and like figuring out how to do brainstorms. And as I mentioned earlier, training creatively I think has really opened a lot of doors for that as well of like, I have a process that, um. A while ago I developed with Ken Gruel, who's my co-designer on a lot of different games.
[00:26:24] Jeremy Posner: Where we'll do these, we call 'em creative sprints, where essentially like we started at just five minutes and the rule is you sit down and you just write for five minutes. We come up with a topic and we say party games, and then we would write for five minutes and then we'd go through what we came up with with each other, and then we extended it and we go for six minutes and then seven, and then eight and, and.
[00:26:43] Jeremy Posner: Now I do them for like 20 minutes at a time. Like fortunately, it's this fire hose that I have found of like, by doing, I mean I do 'em every day and sometimes like. One of the problems is that like I have so many ideas that I cannot follow all of them. And so sometimes just to keep the brain strong, I brainstormed, uh, lion celebration, touchdown dances. They could do like, where it's like, like I'm, I know I'm not gonna do anything with this list. I just need to practice my brainstorming.
[00:27:09] Azhelle Wade: That's, Oh, that's so interesting. Yeah.
[00:27:11] Jeremy Posner: So it's like, it was a, it was a fun thing to do and I would love to find like a outlet for that too. If I could find a place where I could actually make money with my excess brainstorming, but does whatever.
[00:27:21] Azhelle Wade: That's so interesting. Does the advent of AI worry you at all in how much people are using it to do some initial brainstorming?
[00:27:30] Jeremy Posner: No, I'm, well, I don't know. I worry me about. What, like they, they're--
[00:27:35] Azhelle Wade: Well about several things. I mean, worry about one, the replacement of creatives, which is what everyone's worried about. But two, the expectation of speed. Like when we spend time coming up with ideas, there are definitely better ideas, but of course they take 20 minutes versus two seconds. So do you worry about like the industry changing expectations of speed?
[00:27:55] Jeremy Posner: So AI is, I use AI every day. I'm a paying member, a user of ChatGPT.
[00:28:01] Azhelle Wade: A paying member.
[00:28:01] Jeremy Posner: Um, yeah, I like.
[00:28:04] Azhelle Wade: I worship the ChatGPT cross and like.
[00:28:08] Jeremy Posner: So like I use it a ton and, and I know like. Essentially, I mean, it's, it's the most powerful tool I think that humans have created. And I do think that, I mean, it's, it's, it's coming for jobs and there's some jobs that are more secure than others.
[00:28:21] Jeremy Posner: There's some jobs that are already not secure. I have a cousin who's getting a degree in industrial design and I, I talked to him, I was like, Hey, have you, have you, have they talked to you about AI? Like, like, are you worried about it? And he was like, no, no one's really, we haven't looked at AI. I was like, that's crazy to me.
[00:28:36] Jeremy Posner: Wow. 'cause like he told me his, his project for the year and he is like. It was designed, some shoe for this, whatever, and I'm like, I put a prompt into ChatGPT was like. Would this work? He goes, yes, that would that like obviously if I could show that I did that work, like that would be a big part of my final project.
[00:28:50] Azhelle Wade: And he wasn't a he. Wow.
[00:28:51] Jeremy Posner: Well he is now. No, and he uses it now and, and Oh. But I warned him, I was like, the jobs for industrial designers, they're not gonna be more of them available. It's just the industrial designers that are using AI and saying, okay, let me use this to do that part of my job, but still use my eyes.
[00:29:05] Jeremy Posner: So I like the best industrial designer in the world is just gonna be able to do a hundred times more jobs than everyone else. And so they're going to be able to take way more of the job. So that, I think that, that it will move forward, the people who are using it. But I do think eventually, like, like right now, I can go toe to toe with ChatGPT and I can still beat it at game design.
[00:29:24] Azhelle Wade: Oh, for sure. It's not a very good game designer. It's not a good, no, it just like changes everything halfway through. You're like, wait, wasn't there a.
[00:29:31] Jeremy Posner: But I use it for, like, if I'm trying to put a theme on my game. And I go, oh man, I need a theme for this game. And like there's this like, oh, there's this moment where like all this tension builds, and then something happens.
[00:29:40] Jeremy Posner: And I'll say, ChatGPT give me 30 example. Where some, where something builds and then this happens and it goes, blah, blah volcanoes. Oh, volcanoes, okay. Gimme like, give me a bunch of volcano puns and idioms that sound like they could be board game names and like, like kinda like working through that Uhhuh. So like it speeds me up. But I think there's times to know when to follow it and times to know when not to follow it.
[00:30:02] Azhelle Wade: Mm-hmm. And there's also a lot of times where like. People are posting with it. And I'm like, I can tell that you wrote that with ChatGPT. Or you can tell when a game's been named by it. You can tell when an instruction's written by it, like you can tell. Um.
[00:30:15] Jeremy Posner: Yeah, and, and and like, and it, it's interesting because it puts like this weird sour onto it.
[00:30:02] Azhelle Wade: Sour?
[00:30:19] Jeremy Posner: Of, of like when someone is reading it, at least for me, like if, if I look at an art, I, if, if someone makes an Instagram post and it's like obviously an AI image that they just slapped together and like made it what?
[00:30:32] Jeremy Posner: Like they spent like. Less than a minute on it, because, and it's like, I, I'm not impressed at the thing you made. Like, yes, you made, you used AI. You didn't put in a lot of time for this.
[00:30:42] Azhelle Wade: Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, the images are one, but I see less AI images posted and I guess I see more copy.
[00:30:49] Azhelle Wade: There's a lot of copy. Because it's like so emoji heavy and the weirdest and like the, it's like a teenage girl just like, was like.
[00:30:57] Jeremy Posner:Yeah. And it, it's a weird like echo chamber problem because like AI is training on itself on all these posts, but now it's training on itself. So it's, it's just like turning into this weird.
[00:31:07] Azhelle Wade: Yeah.
[00:31:08] Jeremy Posner: Yeah.
[00:31:09] Azhelle Wade: Okay. This is great. I wanna talk a little bit about play testing. It's a big part of game development. Have there been any moments when you play tested that a play tester completely. Maybe broke your game, changed your game. You were rethinking all of your life choices. Like what was there like a moment?
[00:31:28] Jeremy Posner: I think that my access to play testers is phenomenal. I love my play testers. I have a really, really great group and they've often make lots of suggestions that make it to the next round, which is phenomenal. When, when you say break my game, do you mean like they, like break a physical prototype or like they broke.
[00:31:44] Azhelle Wade: They break the function.
[00:31:46] Jeremy Posner: Gotcha. Yeah, I mean there's, I often will play test something that. Like isn't a game yet of like, oh, is it fun to see these pictures and come up with a word related to it, whatever.
[00:31:59] Azhelle Wade: Oh, that's interesting. Yeah.
[00:32:00] Jeremy Posner: And it's like, okay, let me test that. And it's like, oh, it's kind of fun. Alright, let me build, build a structure around it. Where, so like by lowering, I do use the term MVP minimum viable prototype.
[00:32:10] Azhelle Wade: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:32:12] Jeremy Posner: Yeah. So like by lowering the standards of the minimum viable prototype. Like. It pisses off my play tester. It doesn't piss them off.
[00:32:18] Azhelle Wade: Oh, you're saying minimum viable prototype. Oh, interesting. Yeah, I say minimum viable product.
[00:32:21] Jeremy Posner: Mm, gotcha. But like my play testers put up with me a ton because I will often we'll start playing a game. I'll be like, great, let's test this thing out. I'll explain it. We'll do it for like 30 seconds. We'll be like, great, I got what I need. And they'll be like.
[00:32:34] Azhelle Wade: But we're not.
[00:32:35] Jeremy Posner: Or can we finish it? And it's like, no, I have 12 more. Like, Sorry.
[00:32:38] Azhelle Wade: Wow. No, that's actually really smart. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:32:41] Jeremy Posner: Yeah. And it depends too. 'cause there's certain play tests where I do wanna like bake a game more of like, okay, this isn't, its first time to the table. Because like the first play test usually happens in tabletop simulator because I can build a deck so fast there.
[00:32:52] Jeremy Posner: And then go, okay, does this feel right? And I get the numbers tuned in and I can build a physical thing. Get it tested with like a small test and say, okay, this is fun in person, or No, there's a discrepancy there. We have to figure that out. And if it is, then it moves to a bigger test with people and that one will get a more of a play.
[00:33:11] Azhelle Wade: Got it. Now looking back, is there a game that you've created that you're really proud of?
[00:33:16] Jeremy Posner: I do. I love all of my babies as a cop out answer.
[00:33:21] Azhelle Wade: Oh my gosh.
[00:33:22] Jeremy Posner: I do think though that Mantis is, mantis is really, mantis is really special. It's a, it's my game with Ken. Well, it's with Exploding Kittens that I co-designed with Ken. It's a very elegant game. The way that we ended up making it was, there's a term that we use in game design that Quentin Weir said first. He's another co-designer that he was talking about the path of least resistance of like the game is trying to go a direction. And you can try and go that direction.
[00:33:46] Jeremy Posner: I heard Peter C. Hayward on a different podcast called it like following the dog of like. If you're leading your dog in a field, your game's somewhere in that field and you're trying to lead your dog to it, it's a lot easier if you just let the dog off leash and let it run and run behind the dog.
[00:33:59] Jeremy Posner: And like build the game that way. And so like that path of least resistance, I think like it can make some really awesome games and, and I feel like Mantis. Followed that path so quickly from once we got the cards to the table. So the, the, the interesting thing about Mantis is the back of the cards is three colors.
[00:34:13] Jeremy Posner: And the front of the card is one of those three colors. And the game I'd actually started where I pitched that card to Ken, and Ken said, how do you play? And I said, I have no idea. But I was like, we should build it. Because the same thing happened to me with Beagle or Bagel. I die or bagel in my head for like, I don't know, months.
[00:34:29] Jeremy Posner: And, uh, eventually I was like, I just need to make cards. And I made cards and soon after I had the prototype and with Mantis, we made the cards. And like within 40 minutes of making that deck, we had 98% of the final, like that game. Um, uh, may maybe a hundred percent. I mean, we were everything but the two player variant of that game we had.
[00:34:48] Azhelle Wade: The game industry has been growing so much, so fast. Like do you foresee an end in sight? Like when you look at it, do you ever think like, okay, where is the end? It just seems like there's always opportunity to get more things licensed, more things are doing well. Is there going to be a time where, like an end to this like interest and insatiable need for more party games and family games and.
[00:35:11] Jeremy Posner: Yeah. So I think that the question is different for party games and for family games. I think party games are getting to a point where they can be viewed as, as periodicals. Um, where like this game will come out. It will be out for a year because it plays, uh, it's the next, that's what she said.
[00:35:26] Jeremy Posner: The, if you go look at the party games right now, they're all like, they were all hashtags on Instagram at some point. And like, as more hashtags come out, we'll make the game that makes the most sense to fit. That--
[00:35:36] Azhelle Wade: They're very trendy. Yeah.
[00:35:37] Jeremy Posner: It'll, yeah. It's, they're very trend driven. And, and so those games I think will churn and burn and like a lot of 'em will be like, oh, here's the Cards Against Humanity Clone that plays this way.
[00:35:46] Jeremy Posner: And oh, here's a catchphrase clone, but plays into this funny thing and like there will be that churn. I think family games are a little bit different. Um, obviously the theming and everything will stay on point, but almost like Bitcoin being mined. I feel like we are. We're in this like big place of like discovering games right now and like humanity is getting a lot better at making games.
[00:36:07] Jeremy Posner: Interesting. And I think, I think we're all getting better at making games and like we're finding these games now. I've had this conversation before of looking at the space of all possible games. If you look at all the space of all possible games of like. Oh, a drafting game mixed with a dice, rolling, whatever.
[00:36:21] Jeremy Posner: Like that game exists. Is it fun? I have no idea. But like someone has to put it together. And at some point someone will put it together and they'll follow the dog and see if it's a, if it's a big, fun game and that game will get made and like it will get harder and harder to do. But, um, I don't think in my lifetime, I, I think AI is, is a bigger worry than, than humans exhausting that.
[00:36:39] Azhelle Wade: I mean, I love that you think, like, how, how you're phrasing it as a, it's an expanding category that we're, we are getting better at inventing for and consumers, we are getting better at enjoying and experiencing. But I guess I always wonder about it from just the perspective of the toy industry being so trend focused and how, what, like seven years ago, the adult game aisle didn't really exist and the family game aisle was like three feet in target.
[00:37:05] Azhelle Wade: And now those are both the like 20 foot section, like they're whole aisle. I mean, it's, it's like where did all this space come from? Number one, who, who lost their whole business for this space to come outta nowhere?And then like, two, like, where, where's this gonna go? Like--
[00:37:21] Jeremy Posner: No, I, I think we're on a, a bit of a bubble. And I think that it's interesting. I mean, if you look at Target, Target, like Target has like a heavy turnover. Like Target likes to sell a hundred thousand units of a game and then sell another. Like, and then switch games and next you sell another a hundred thousand units of a different game.
[00:37:36] Jeremy Posner: And then switch games and like, they're not trying to build evergreens. 'cause they have found that they can sell that a hundred thousand units to the same person over and over again by changing the game. So weirdly, like everyone kind of piles onto that. Not everyone, but a lot of people pile onto that target direction of, of, of.
[00:37:54] Jeremy Posner: Okay. Like making games for this churn and burn. Interesting. Which, and I fully understand why Target's doing what they're doing. They're selling a ton of games.
[00:38:02] Jeremy Posner: And they are responsible, I think, like, I mean, when, when they started carrying Catan and Ticket to Ride, like before like way before I thought they should be, and like, obviously I was way wrong. Like they've, they've done so much for the industry of, of blowing it up. And, and, and like, oh, look at all of the things you can buy at Target. Like all of the gateway and like, even to hobby games are in Target. Like, it's, it's awesome.
[00:38:26] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. It’s crazy.
[00:38:27] Jeremy Posner: Um, so they've definitely blown it up. I think. I think that the bubble will condense a little bit. I think that got a little overinflated from Covid.
[00:38:33] Azhelle Wade: Mm. Yeah agreed.
[00:38:33] Jeremy Posner: But also like of people not going out. But also I think people are going out less.
[00:38:39] Azhelle Wade: Agreed. I really agree too. I, now maybe because of financial reasons, but also 'cause we just learned a different way to connect with each other. That's as well.
[00:38:47] Jeremy Posner: Yeah. Of, of I can be social through my phone. Right. So I'll play board games with people when I need to get away from my phone. Yeah. Which I spend too much time on.
[00:38:55] Azhelle Wade: Interesting. Okay, I, let's move on to our closing questions. This has been such a great interview. I'd love to hear what's next for you, if there are any dream projects or ideas you're working on you're excited about that you wanna share.
[00:39:06] Jeremy Posner: Yeah. I've had this, like, when, when I started job hunting, I was like looking for like some weird things and like I, there were a few paths that I followed where it's like.
[00:39:15] Jeremy Posner: This isn't job hunting. Calling this job hunting is not fair. 'cause it's like weirdly going after dreams. And I mean, I didn't spend too much time on them, but I always thought it would be really fun to like, do something in fan engagement.
[00:39:26] Azhelle Wade: Fan engagement.
[00:39:27] Jeremy Posner: Um, I would love to like work for the, like a professional sporting team because like right now, like when you go to a sporting event, if you go to a Pistons game, it's like, 95% about that basketball game.
[00:39:38] Jeremy Posner: And when there's not basketball happening. There's like, okay, there's dancing on a jumbotron, but like, things haven't changed at a sporting event and like, since I was a kid, like it, it's, the jumbotron got nicer. But like there, I, I feel like there's a lot I could do there. I also would love to be hired to fix Pro Bowl weekend.
[00:39:53] Azhelle Wade: What?
[00:39:53] Jeremy Posner: I think that that would be, I think that Pro Bowl weekend.
[00:39:56] Azhelle Wade: What are you saying? Like Pro Bowl.
[00:39:57] Jeremy Posner: Pro Bowl. The NFL.
[00:39:59] Azhelle Wade: I know what that is.
[00:40:00] Jeremy Posner: They're like, so like, like the NBA has has their like, um, their NBA All Star weekend.
[00:40:05] Azhelle Wade: Mm.
[00:40:05] Jeremy Posner: That's like the NFL's Pro Bowl weekend. And it's awful. It's like not fun to watch. It doesn't look like it's fun to play in and like I feel like I could go in there and just like make the whole thing fun and engaging.
[00:40:17] Azhelle Wade: Oh, you should hang out with Barry and Jason. 'cause that feels like--
[00:40:19] Jeremy Posner: Yes. I love Barry and Jason.
[00:40:21] Azhelle Wade: Yeah, they're like, that feels like their area wheelhouse. And I do know there is actually someone on some, there's a sporting company, oh, red Bulls Arena that's on our email list. So probably listens to this podcast, so.
[00:40:32] Jeremy Posner: Ooh, hire me.
[00:40:35] Azhelle Wade: Yeah, exactly. So.
[00:40:35] Jeremy Posner: Um. The only other dream job that I should mention too is, is I would love to, I would love to design more game shows. I've, I've, um, they're, they're very, very fun and I have no outlet for them, but I brainstorm them anyway. So I have a huge list of game shows. If anyone, uh, if anyone wants to chat.
[00:40:50] Azhelle Wade: And if somebody does wanna chat, where can people find you?
[00:40:53] Jeremy Posner: Oh man, I am not good at the whole--
[00:40:56] Azhelle Wade: What?
[00:40:56] Jeremy Posner: Find me on the internet thing.
[00:40:57] Azhelle Wade: Well, what's your contact like, what do you wanna share?
[00:40:59] Jeremy Posner: Yeah, no, I get it. Um, it's, are you, are you ready for the nerdiest plug of all time?
[00:41:05] Azhelle Wade: What is it? I don't--
[00:41:06] Jeremy Posner: Uh, find me on LinkedIn, please.
[00:41:08] Azhelle Wade: Oh, that's great. No, that's normal. People do that.
[00:41:10] Jeremy Posner: I deleted Instagram and Facebook off of my phone because. I did not like how easy it was for me to pull up my phone and then be like–
[00:41:18] Azhelle Wade: I know.
[00:41:19] Jeremy Posner: 10 minutes later, like, how did I do that? Where did time go?
[00:41:20] Azhelle Wade: Exactly.
[00:41:20] Jeremy Posner: And so, and I don't do that on LinkedIn. So LinkedIn is the only social media on my phone. Um.
[00:41:26] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. It's so boring. It's like nobody really wants, you don't really wanna scroll LinkedIn, it's like. You know why? It's just a bunch of accolades. It's just a bunch of like every scroll. It's like I'm so proud. Thank you so much. I mean, good for you all. It's wonderful. I'm so happy for you, but it's just not what I'm here for.
[00:41:44] Jeremy Posner: Yeah, that's fair. Very fair. But find me on LinkedIn.
[00:41:46] Azhelle Wade: LinkedIn.
[00:41:46] Jeremy Posner: That's the--
[00:41:47] Azhelle Wade: We will put it--
[00:41:48] Jeremy Posner: Jeremy Posner.
[00:41:48] Azhelle Wade: Jeremy Posner. We'll put the link in the show notes and before I let you go, I have to ask you my favorite question of all time. What toy or game blew your mind as a kid?
[00:41:55] Jeremy Posner: So when I was a kid, I spent like $50 of my own money on this drone toy. Like I bought it from a magazine and it was like this quad copter, and it came and it was connected to the controller with a wire, because that way like they didn't have to carry the weight to the battery.
[00:42:11] Jeremy Posner: And it was like interestingly photographed so that you couldn't really tell that it was wired. And I was, I was destroyed by that. Um, and so ever since now we have like all those like little quad copters, like I love just being able to fly around a toy.
[00:42:27] Azhelle Wade: It is cool.
[00:42:28] Jeremy Posner: Like for like 10 bucks now. It's insane.
[00:42:30] Azhelle Wade: It, it, I, some company sent me this like rocket drone and I'd never owned a drone before and I just thought like, oh that's, I mean this is whatever. And as soon as it got in the air I was like, this is awesome.
[00:42:43] Jeremy Posner: It's so cool. And it was like, and so like, I wanted it as a kid and I never had it. And now playing with it being cool, I was like, I was right. I did it.
[00:42:50] Azhelle Wade: Oh my God. What was it called?
[00:42:51] Jeremy Posner: I don't know what it was called. It was, but like the, the wired thing. But now, just like now, the drone that you can get now is the toy that would've blown my mind that I tried to own as a child.
[00:43:02] Azhelle Wade: The toy you thought it was, and instead spent like all of my allowance on the toy.
[00:43:02] Azhelle Wade: You thought it was? Yeah. In the eighties we had some questionable marketing practices, didn't we? Like eighties and nineties? Like they would just do whatever they wanted on those commercials and nobody was holding them to anything. Like wild. Oh man.
[00:43:18] Jeremy Posner: Absolutely.
[00:43:18] Azhelle Wade: It was. So great to have you on the show and you shared that people can connect with you on LinkedIn, but your invention studio is shenanigan toys and games, and this.
[00:43:26] Jeremy Posner: Shenanigans, toys and games.
[00:43:28] Azhelle Wade: Shenanigans, toys and games. So where can people connect and check out that studio and everything you've done there?
[00:43:32] Jeremy Posner: ShenanigansToysAndGames.com.
[00:43:33] Azhelle Wade: Perfect.
[00:43:35] Jeremy Posner: Why not?
[00:43:35] Azhelle Wade: John Malaney, thank you so much for joining me on the show today.
[00:43:38] Jeremy Posner: You are welcome.
[00:43:40] Azhelle Wade: Jeremy. And Jeremy, thank you so much for joining me on the show today. Appreciate you.
[00:43:45] Azhelle Wade: And you.
[00:43:46] Jeremy Posner: Thanks Azhelle.
[00:43:47] Azhelle Wade: You dear listener, if you love this podcast and you haven't already left a review, what are you waiting for? Your reviews keep me an amazing guest like John Mulaney coming back week after week and every time a new review comes in, I get notified on my phone, puts a smile on my face, I tell my husband and my mom, it's great.
[00:44:04] Azhelle Wade: So please, wherever you're listening, leave a rating and review. As always, thank you so much for spending this time with me. I know your time is valuable and that there are a ton of podcasts out there, so it truly means the world to me that you tune into this one. Until next week, I'll see you later toy people.
[00:44:20] Jeremy Posner: Bye, toy people.
[00:44:23] Thanks for listening to the Making It In The Toy Industry Podcast with Azhelle Wade. Head over to thetoycoach.com for more information, tips, and advice.
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