Episode #156: In-Person Interviews with Entrepreneurs At Chicago Toy and Game Week [2 of 3]
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The Toy Coach Team ventured out to the windy city to set up a live podcast recording booth at Chicago Toy and Game Week, also known as CHITAG by Mary Couzin and People of Play. This annual, public toy and game fair is where toy and game brands connect with the consumers who love their products, debut new lines, and marketing activations.
During this 2 day fair, I interviewed 10 toy and game creators during this fair to learn about their toy journeys and ask them to share any toy biz wisdom they’d gathered along the way. This is Part 2 of a 3 part interview release series featuring my interviews with Kate Hunt, a current student in toy creators academy and the creator of the Ultimate Treehouse game. After that, we'll go right into an interview with Joe Barron Gray Matters games, the games company with a devotion to supporting brain health. In short, they believe that exercising the gray matter in your head…matters! And finally, we'll wrap up today's episode with Rebecca Jatton of Goliath Toys and Games.
Watch the video of these 10 interviews on my YouTube channel, visit youtube.com/thetoycoach and hit the subscribe button so you don’t miss those.
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This episode is brought to you by www.thetoycoach.com
Follow Kate Hunt’s inventor studio, One Quick Round by clicking here.
Check out the toy that blew Kate’s mind as a kid here.
Shop Gray Matters games by clicking here.
Check out the toy that blew Joe’s mind as a kid here.
Shop and learn more about Goliath Toys and Games by clicking here.
Check out the toy that blew Rebecca’s mind as a kid here.
Watch the video of these 10 interviews on my YouTube channel, visit youtube.com/thetoycoach and hit the subscribe button so you don’t miss those.
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[00:00:00] Azhelle Wade: You are listening to Making it in the Toy Industry, episode number 156.
[00:00:05] Hey there, toy people. Azhelle Wade here and welcome back to another episode of the Toy Coach Podcast, making it in the Toy Industry. This is a weekly podcast brought to you by thetoycoach.com. Today's podcast episode is part two of the three part series.
[00:00:35] That's gonna take us through the rest of the year. And remember, for every episode the rest of this year, we are highlighting interviews that I conducted at our recent toy industry event CHITAG, which is the Chicago Toy and Game Fair that's held in Q4 every year. At the show this year, I interviewed 10 creators.
[00:00:56] All with different products from book authors to toy and game creators. In these interviews, we dove into their personal experiences, developing their brands, and of course lessons for listeners of this podcast. Now we do have. Full video of these interviews, and those videos are scheduled to release starting tomorrow on YouTube.
[00:01:20] So head over to youtube.com/thetoycoach, subscribe to my channel so you'll be notified as soon as those videos become available. Okay, so for today's episode, I am so excited to share with you these three interviews. First, an interview with Kate Hunt, a current student in Toy Creators Academy, and the creator of the Ultimate Treehouse game.
[00:01:46] After that, we will go right into an interview with. Joe Barron of Gray Matters Games, the games company, with a devotion to supporting brain health. In short, they believe that exercising the gray matter in your head matters. And finally, we'll wrap up today's episode with a conversation with Rebecca Jetton of Goliath Toy and Games.
[00:02:10] Now in today's podcast episode, you're going to hear how two-dimensional board games can fill the desire for a three-dimensional play set and how the mom that created that game got it on the shelves of over a dozen stores by thinking outside of the box in terms of placement. You'll hear how a road trip can inspire a game idea and launch an entire games company with a story behind Gray Matters games.
[00:02:37] And finally learn about the kid inventor who landed a deal with a major toy company. Keep in mind, these interviews were conducted in person at a toy trade show, so the background might be a bit noisy, but I stress the importance of these in-person shows, and you'll hear why in these interviews.
[00:02:58] As I said at the top of this episode, this is part two of a three part series. So without further ado, let's dive into the interviews held by me, The Toy Coach at CHITAG. The Chicago Toy and Game Fair put on by People of Play and Mary Couzin.
[00:03:15] Hey there toy people. I'm here with Kate Hunt, inventor of the Ultimate Treehouse game, and soon to be an inventor of many more other things I think. Kate, welcome to the show.
[00:03:25] Kate Hunt: Hey.
[00:03:26] Azhelle Wade: Happy me to have you here.
[00:03:26] Kate Hunt: Thank you.
[00:03:27] Azhelle Wade: I actually have never seen your game in person.
[00:03:29] Kate Hunt: Oh, it's awesome.
[00:03:30] Azhelle Wade: Yes. So first, can we talk a little bit about Ultimate Treehouse Game. Then I wanna get into why you're at the show today. Okay. And what it's been like going like in person shows the past year. And I wanna talk a little bit about your journey into the toy So We're gonna hit a lot of things today. Awesome. And A lot of things. So first, tell me about your game. What is this?
[00:03:47] Kate Hunt: So all Ultimate Treehouse is a building and strategy game for kids seven and up. Okay. So everybody starts with these really nice mats, which are kind of like mouse pads or like a a Pokemon or Magic, the gathering mat, like a neoprene. So it has a really nice feel. Yeah.
[00:04:00] And the goal of the game is to get. six items Into your tree house first. So you've got resource cards and action cards in your hands. I want some cards. Yep. Yep. This is your how to play. So you've got like rope and glass. I'm just gonna give you a pile. Thank you. All right.
[00:04:14] And then on the table you'll have a store, which is a couple cards elements that are gonna go into your tree house. Okay. So there'll be five of those up, and then as we're playing, okay. You'll see like if you wanna build a zip line, you need two rope and a metal. Ooh. So once you have that, I can build a zip line. Yeah, you couldn't build it right into your tree house. So everything fits.
[00:04:35] Azhelle Wade: oh nevermind. I thought this was metal. Oh, have a wild car. A wild card. yeah, I have a wild card. So what do I do?
[00:04:40] Kate Hunt: You would play it down. Yeah, play it.
[00:04:42] Azhelle Wade: But I'm going to play two and a wild card so that I can Build a zip line. Yes. In my tree house. Yes. I'm gonna build this. Okay. So I would play it.
[00:04:52] Kate Hunt: Yep. Everything fits onto the mat. Kinda like a puzzle. So, everything has A specific location. And the nice thing about that is you can have any combination of elements. that There is, So there's 15 different element. in the tree house and you can have kind of any combination. You do have to have floor, walls, and a roof, And then any other three elements.
[00:05:12] Azhelle Wade: Oh, I just, okay, so I spent my cards and something I didn't need.
[00:05:15] Kate Hunt: Well, you know, you do cause you, cause you need three extra things. Oh yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. So the strategy comes in because on every turn you either can build or play an action card, but you can't do So kids are forced to decide is it more important for me to build right now or is it more important for me to, to like slow down an opponent or get resources so that I can build next turn. Okay. So they're forced to make a choice every turn and that's kind of where the strategy comes in.
[00:05:39] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. And when all these what'd you call these cards?
[00:05:41] Kate Hunt: Elements.
[00:05:42] Azhelle Wade: When all the element cards are played, the tree house will then kind of look like this in the Yeah. Okay. So it's like a puzzle and a board game all in one. Yeah. This is really smart. So I know before you were an inventor, you were a chemist. Yes. So did that influence his game idea at all? Not at all. Where did you come up with this idea?
[00:06:00] Kate Hunt: So we live in Chicago, so we were in an apartment for many, many, many years. Okay. And so I have kids and they would say, why can't we just build a tree house in that tree? Or that tree? Or that tree?
[00:06:09] Azhelle Wade: What, like any tree outside.
[00:06:10] Kate Hunt: Any tree outside, , right. So, you being in an apartment has. A ton of advantages. And I love living in apartments, but you don't have a basement, you don't have a treehouse, you don't have a yard. And so there was just that desire for like this little nook of that's theirs.
[00:06:24] Oh wow. So an actual treehouse is expensive and hard and takes a long time and you have to have, you know, on right set up. But like, I think a lot of kids want that. So it's something you can do in 20 minutes and you get that sensation of like building this thing that's yours your little hide out.
[00:06:38] Azhelle Wade: So you made this game because your kids wanted your real tree up. Yes. That's So funny. Yeah, they didn't satisfy their urges?
[00:06:44] Kate Hunt: Yes.
[00:06:45] Azhelle Wade: What? How? Really?
[00:06:46] Kate Hunt: Because you really feel like you're building the way everything fits in. Just like, just Exactly.
[00:06:51] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. Let's hold it it up. This is the board game.
[00:06:53] Kate Hunt: And then the bunny goes like right in there. Yeah. Yeah. So everything fits in. So, there's a lot of little guidelines of like ropes and little hooks and things, so you can see where everything goes. So it gives you that. visual, like, here, This is where the swing is gonna go. Something, the hammock here is a slide. The slide goes in right there. You can really see how you're, you can really see how it fits in.
[00:07:13] Okay. And the hammock is gonna go like right here, like up a little bit. Yep. Right there. So everything fits in kind of Exactly. So it's really, people have said it's really satisfying to place it onto the mat, and the mat feels really good. So it's got a lot of like sensory, tactile. Yeah. Stuff. Yeah.
[00:07:30] Azhelle Wade: Oh, that's so cool. And what's really cool about this invention is that you licensed it. Yes, I did. And you didn't mean to?
[00:07:38] Kate Hunt: Well, I, as a new as a new person in the toy industry, I really didn't know the pathways to getting this done. Yeah. So for my, for this game, I essentially self-published. Yes. I, I, I got an artist. I put it all together and. I, and you Manufactured. it? I manufactured it and it's like, this is ready this. sell. This is not a prototype. This is it's good to go. And so when I went to Astra, I.
[00:08:00] Azhelle Wade: What is Astra kate?
[00:08:01] Kate Hunt: Astra is the American Specialty Toy Retail Association. And they have a big show. Yeah. And I went to the innovator uh, pitch section. Yes. Something. And I learned that the key word was licensing. Yeah. And so then at Astra, I actually pitched Fat Brain. Yes. And then talk started from there and we were able to put together a deal over the. summer and they've, they're working on it. So their version will come out next year and I'm really excited.
[00:08:25] Azhelle Wade: So what I like to tell people is licensing your idea is like developing an idea to sell and being an entrepreneur is like developing a product, a physical product to sell. So Kate developed a product to sell and then inadvertently sold the idea of it. Yeah. As well. . So I did a little bit of both. A little bit of both. so now you're here at this show. Yeah. Tell me why you're here at this show.
[00:08:47] Kate Hunt: I am trying to move into, inventory, so I still have this first printing and I am in about 20 stores and selling, you know, all over. But I also have products that I need to, you know, move.
[00:08:58] Azhelle Wade: I didn't know you were in 20 stores. That's huge.
[00:09:00] Kate Hunt: Yeah. That I, that was like part of it was Astra. I picked up a lot of people at Astra and then just calling people and finding specific things. So one cool thing is like I got into some museum toy stores. And I got into Arboretum gift shops. Uhhuh, . So I was like, you know, it's a tree. I, I met someone at Astra who works for the, National Parks And he does the, their gift stores. Wow. So, things that I wouldn't have thought of, you know, like what, who is interested in tree stuff? Right. People who are interested in trees. Right. And that's just like another route to go.
[00:09:29] Azhelle Wade: Was that something that Fat Brain was interested in when you were showing your concept? did they see value in the fact that you already had some stuff to see?
[00:09:37]
[00:09:37] Kate Hunt: Adam Hickerman, who's amazing and wonderful person, he took it home and played with his girls. Oh. And I think people. once they play It, it's just like fun.
[00:09:45] Azhelle Wade: So are you planning to replace this with anything? Because you do have all these connections now with all these retailers. They have your product, it might be selling, you do have an, you know, a unique opportunity that a lot of new toy creators don't have, where you have relationships and you can say, oh, I have a new product. Do you wanna try this next year?
[00:10:02] Kate Hunt: I would like to license. From here on apps. Yeah. There are advantages to both. But what I have learned is like, sales is hard and, and like I, you know, in college I worked two Christmas seasons at Toys R Us. Yeah. And I, I get it. And I love retail and it's really fun, but I like inventing and tinkering and test playing and trying this and trying that. And, and that's where my kind of passion lies. Yeah. And so I like the idea of, of handing it over and saying, now you run with this.
[00:10:34] Azhelle Wade: Now that you are no longer a toy entrepreneur. Yes. And you are venting into the world of Toy inventorship. Okay. You had to come up with a, a name for your toy invention studio. Yes. What is your toy invention studio?
[00:10:45] Kate Hunt: My toy invention studio is called One Quick Round. One Quick Round. And it's because that's the kind of games that I feel like I'm drawn to. And a lot of people are drawn to games where you play and you're like, oh gosh, I was so close to winning one more round. Like, let's go again, let's go again. Yeah. Yeah. I wanna create games where people The second it's over. They're ready To play again.
[00:11:02] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. Okay. This is funny cuz I know we were talking before this and you said you hadn't yet listened to my podcast episode with Chrissy Fagerholt. Yeah. And one of the things she said, but she noticed games that do really well are things that people say they wanna play again. Right. So that's like what your whole invention studio is focused on?
[00:11:18] Kate Hunt: My, yeah. Cuz there are games that I love, but they, for example, my son Is the longer play games that take an hour.
[00:11:26] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. Like you get to ride.
[00:11:27] Kate Hunt: Yeah. Or like he's really into root right now, which is by Leader Games, which is a wonderful. game. Super cute, like adorable. Yeah. It takes an hour. Okay. So it's one of those things where like you gotta have a little bit more of a time commitment. Yeah. And not everyone has that always.
[00:11:40] Azhelle Wade: And then if you lose, you just feel like I invested in hours And I have nothing to show.
[00:11:44] Kate Hunt: My husband and I play a ton of monopoly deal. Which is just Monopoly, the card game essentially Uhhuh. And it's great cuz it's over in like eight minutes. That's good. So we'll play like two rounds or three rounds. Yeah. And now however much time you have, you wanna do, but like you can play and be like, all right, rematch. One more rematch, like, you know, oh, I was So close. So that's what you're focusing, that's what I'm kind of going for that like I want more.
[00:12:05] Azhelle Wade: So do you have any new things in the work? I know you can't share the products you're developing. Okay. Yes. So, what category of games are you focused on right now?
[00:12:12] Kate Hunt: So this got me to learn that, you know, this mat was like the hardest part of production Why? And it's the most expensive part of the game. Oh. It's a really nice material. And, and getting it the right quality and getting it the right, you know, feeling all that.
[00:12:25] Azhelle Wade: right colors.
[00:12:26] Kate Hunt: And the colors. Right. So, after this I was kinda like, I wanna do just straight cards. And so why I like those games. Yeah. And also it's just an easier, it's a bigger margin, it's an easier printing. There is like that aspect of like, it's a smaller box if it's on the shelves. Right, right, And we play a lot of card games. Right.
[00:12:45] So, so my next couple, I have some card games I'm working on and then going to the CHITAG, innovator and inventor thing. Yeah. All weekend. I was like, oh. I have this idea. All these things were popping in my head. So I have some like more toy things that I've not done toys yet. Yeah. That I am working on as well. So card, games, toys, et cetera.
[00:13:07] Azhelle Wade: One thing I feel like you're not giving yourself enough credit for the combination of puzzle and game. Mm-hmm. , because puzzles are so big. Yeah. I work with somebody who helps license people's ideas, and whenever there's a puzzle involved, he's like, oh, give it to me. I can sell it. He's like, oh, really? He's like, I can sell a puzzle like any kind of Puzzle.
[00:13:26] Kate Hunt: And that's the feedback I get the most is people are like, I love it's puzzle. So satisfying. It's releasing it there. Yeah. And it fits just perfectly and it looks so beautiful.
[00:13:35] Azhelle Wade: And you can't, you wouldn't get that if this was all cars. Right. So I'm only saying that to say like, don't limit yourself too much. Right. Especially if you're going on the licence path, because then this totally won't be your problem. If you have an idea and it has this unique like, platform to play on top of, I don't know, don't throw it away too fast. Hey, I'm gonna ask you the final closing questions. Yeah. First, what toy blew your mind as a kid?
[00:13:56] Kate Hunt: Okay. There's a game I've been thinking about a lot lately, and I don't know the name of it, but you had to build an arch. It was like a plastic arch. Okay. And each piece of the arch, I think it was called like Centerstone or Keystone or something. Okay. Was actually like a bucket. So you had to build this cool arch. and then you had To put these things in it and it would collapse in. And it was just a neat way of doing a building engineering toy that I had never seen before. Nothing else was like it. it just had like two layers of play cuz building it was part of the fun, right? And then destroying it was part of the fun.
[00:14:26] Azhelle Wade: Fun. And so I, what's it called?
[00:14:28] Kate Hunt: I think it was called like center Cornerstone or something.
[00:14:30] Azhelle Wade: Okay. We're gonna find it.
[00:14:31] Kate Hunt: I'm gonna have to find it. I'm sure it's like a, like an early nineties game or something.
[00:14:35] Azhelle Wade: That's cool. Yeah. Okay. And then I wanna hear a little advice for anybody that's. thinking about going the entrepreneur path where they develop an idea, a product to sell it, or the inventor path where they're developing an idea to sell it. Advice, what would you say?
[00:14:48] Kate Hunt: Advice. Take Azhelle's class. This is my advice.
[00:14:52] Azhelle Wade: What class?
[00:14:53] Kate Hunt: Oh, The Toy creators Academy class. Oh. Because as I'm taking it, I'm like, oh, that would've been helpful to know. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's so some of the, you're only on module too. I know. Oh my gosh. And still, but still, no, no.
[00:15:05] it's Just it's, it's a way of organizing all the information. Yeah. So like some of the things I was like, oh, I kinda Did that, even though I didn't really know I was supposed to do it. Right. But you have it organized and like cut out in like a very, you know, processed way. Whereas I feel like I was kind of like most sporadic about it. about it. Yeah. So I liked the way that you walk through everything.
[00:15:23] Azhelle Wade: Yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah. Yeah. Take my course. So take the class, Toy Creators Academy.
[00:15:27] Kate Hunt: And just research, research, research. I always yes, would like go to the toy section with my kids at Target and take pictures of things and look at things and like, like look and see how much is that?
[00:15:36] Oh wow. They're selling that board game for, they can sell a $40. board game Here. Okay. That's information. Yes. Yes. So just like look at toys a lot. Yes. And Pick them up and hold them. Yes. And see what's going on.
[00:15:46] Azhelle Wade: Look at the size of the box and the price of things and the, the way things Yeah. Like the design, age ranges. Look at all that stuff. Yeah. time to play. Do you have time to play on here?
[00:15:56] Kate Hunt: I do.
[00:15:57] Azhelle Wade: Me too. Time to play.
[00:15:58] Kate Hunt: 20 minutes. Yeah. See? So yeah, just see, seeing what's out there. Yeah. And, and where the holes are.
[00:16:04] Azhelle Wade: Okay. Now, Kate, if somebody's watching this, where can they get in touch with you?
[00:16:08] Kate Hunt: ultimatetreehousegame.com or an Instagram, I'm at one quick round.
[00:16:14] Azhelle Wade: nice. Where, what show will you be going to next after this one?
[00:16:16] Kate Hunt: Probably Astra again.
[00:16:18] Azhelle Wade: Which one?
[00:16:18] Kate Hunt: Not Toy Boat. Yeah. But the next june is.
[00:16:21] Azhelle Wade: Did you mean that your next event was gonna also be the TCA virtual pitch event?
[00:16:25] Kate Hunt: Yes. Is that? My next event is the TCA pitch event where I am pitching several things.
[00:16:32] Azhelle Wade: And then the astra event.
[00:16:33] Kate Hunt: And then the Astra event in June. Yes. My next in-person versus my next virtual.
[00:16:37] Azhelle Wade: Yes. Yes. Yeah. Oh, that's good. Yeah. Okay. Well thanks for being here today, Kate. Good luck, everyone buy Ultimate Tree House. Thank you for being here. Bye bye.
[00:16:45] Kate Hunt: Bye.
[00:16:46] Azhelle Wade: Hey there people. here at CHITAG with Joe Barron, founder of Gray Matter Games. A that designs and publish games are now available in stores worldwide. 4,000 stores. Welcome to the show.
[00:16:57] Joe Barron: Thank you for having me.
[00:16:58] Azhelle Wade: I'm glad that you're here. And we were already talking before we start rolling. I've learned a a lot. We're gonna try some of that greatness. all of it. We'll reiterate, we'll reiterate all of it. But I first start say, did you always know you wanted to work in the games or toy industry?
[00:17:13] Joe Barron: It came as a total 180. I started my career in corporate finance and mergers acquisitions. Really. did a dozen years there. then we were a family road trip through the Arizona Desert and my, the most competitive people I know, my wife and my mother said, entertain us.
[00:17:30] So I came up with this this kind of idea of like name that tune bedding style trivia game uhhuh that we played in the car for about an hour. And they're like, Amazing. You should make game. And so I started prototyping it played it with friends and eventually we decided to kickstart the game. It was successful.
[00:17:48] Azhelle Wade: was it called?
[00:17:48] Joe Barron: You betcha.
[00:17:49] Azhelle Wade: Oh, you betcha. I feel like I've seen that.
[00:17:51] Joe Barron: Yeah. So it's over at And yeah, since you know, that was five years ago, we've launched eight games.
[00:17:58] Azhelle Wade: Wow. Yeah. Is this what you do full-time now?
[00:18:00] Joe Barron: It's my full-time job now.
[00:18:02] Azhelle Wade: When did you turn full-time. Tell me about that transition.
[00:18:05] Joe Barron: Yeah. So I, while I was working on, on You Betcha I still spent a year in corporate, so there's that steady paycheck, benefits, all that stuff. Mm-hmm. , once we, you know, launched You betcha on Kickstarter, it was successful. And then we had to start fulfilling. I left my job. Wow. And just went all in on game.
[00:18:24] Azhelle Wade: How big was that Kickstarter?
[00:18:25] Joe Barron: You know, it all, it was pretty modest. I think it was like between 15 and 20. were bold.
[00:18:31] Azhelle Wade: You were like, this is enough. gonna this whole finance thing.
[00:18:34] Joe Barron: Yeah.
[00:18:34] Azhelle Wade: What means that?
[00:18:35] Joe Barron: You know, I have a great, I have a great wife, that has supported us this whole thing and know, it takes a while for it to pay off, or it can be financially stable. Yeah. But we, I feel over the hump. got and Yeah. like we're, we're in really good shape as a company.
[00:18:50] Azhelle Wade: What was one of the biggest lessons you learned coming through Covid as a company?
[00:18:54] Joe Barron: You know, I think being really resilient and making that the relationships that you have were good. Because when things go bad, people can get nasty about things. Yeah. we always took the high road things where people had challenges, tried to out toy stores, game stores that were challenged.
[00:19:11] We gave games away for free in some cases to help out through some of the financial issues that they were having. So that, you know, that we made those good relationships. Them through Covid, and they're just stronger than ever.
[00:19:24] Azhelle Wade: Oh, that's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. it's, it's not just about networking and relationships and good times, bad times, supposedly. It's a great lesson. That's right. And today, you said eight years in?
[00:19:36] Joe Barron: No, we are five years. Five years. Eight games.
[00:19:38] Azhelle Wade: Five years, eight games, yes. we're five years in. And you brought together, you brought today root beer float game. Yes. This is an inventor product.
[00:19:46] Joe Barron: Yes. So this is a game that was created actually by local Chicago inventors, Brady Peterson and Tim Swindle. Cool. So we, we love the packaging. our first real family game for ages eight plus.
[00:19:59] Azhelle Wade: What do you do? How do you play this?
[00:20:00] Joe Barron: Yeah, so there's when you open this there's ice cream which is a giant ping pong Yeah. Straws, cherries, and and then the can. you use of those components to do all these sorts of like minute to win it challenges to all, to all four ingredients your root beer flow.
[00:20:16] Azhelle Wade: Like, what's like? give me an example of one of the challenges.
[00:20:18] Joe Barron: Okay. So let's say we do a co-op challenge together. Okay? You grab a you to volleyball, serve the cherry off the wall uh, and then I have to it in the can, right? . If we can complete then we get one of the ingredient cards to put into our hands.
[00:20:32] Azhelle Wade: So holding cooperative game?
[00:20:33] Joe Barron: There's three types challenges. There's so. Cooperative where you get to pick your partner. Yeah. And then head to head where you pick who go against.
[00:20:41] Azhelle Wade: But then how do you know if you win? Who wins?
[00:20:42] Joe Barron: In like head? The person gets to collect one of the ingredients. Okay. And then you've gone around and round a few times.
[00:20:50] Azhelle Wade: Oh, and co we both get together.
[00:20:51] Joe Barron: It, both get together. Yeah. So then when you collect all four into your hand, you win the game.
[00:20:56] Azhelle Wade: Woo. So ever like, played game a co-op challenge because you know other, if you win this co-op challenge or the person's gonna. get it?
[00:21:03] Joe Barron: yeah, you gotta be strategic about who want to pick as your partner. Like, oh, they have ingredients, so I'm pick the person only has one.
[00:21:09] Azhelle Wade: Yes. it sounds fun. Yeah. Maybe we should get this Maybe we get Sounds fun. Okay. And, wait, actually on, because we have inventors that listen to this podcast. You tell little bit how you work with inventors?
[00:21:22] Joe Barron: So, you know, the, the inbound stuff we, we have on our website, if go on the top, inventors. Okay. And then we very easy submission form for people to submit their ideas.
[00:21:34] Azhelle Wade: Uhhuh you review weekly, monthly?
[00:21:36] Joe Barron: I'm the only employee, I review as come in. Yeah. But I'm know, I, I'm quick to know like it's fit Gray Matters games.
[00:21:44] Azhelle Wade: the style of grade matters games? an inventor wants invent for you, they focus on?
[00:21:50] Joe Barron: I look for games that have one is that can game and sit down with the kids, the parents, even the grandparents. Oh, and we can all have fun playing it together. Right. the second thing is I look a marketability angle. Yeah. That there's a trend going fits that well. Mm-hmm. . you think of like challenge, there's like on all different challenges. yeah, think of like word out wordle, like word games this year. So you try with something that's gonna already some traction. Yeah. That we can then kind of. I'm onto and, and really do well with it.
[00:22:25] Azhelle Wade: So that is thing that I feel like lot of new inventors and entrepreneurs sometimes struggle with. have their amazing idea, they wanna drive home, don't. Yeah. Want to spend thinking about how it fits into what's in society Yes. But when you're small and you're you're out, sometimes that's what you have do to get a up. You're with all major and toy companies. You need something as an edge. Absolutely. bringing that point up. Mentioned are are part of an incubator. So what does your incubator do for you?
[00:22:53] Joe Barron: So all the resources that you need in order to really boost your business. So if you think about like in buckets of what you need to be successful with business, Uhhuh, , there's talent. Yeah. Yeah. Um, there's knowledge. Know-how. Yeah. There's, funding, right? They take all that and they connect you to the different resources that you need. So, okay.
[00:23:14] On the talent side, they, they get interns, they get you, they connect you with people that can someday be employed by your business. On funding side, we've this. huge Community of, angel and VC investors that invest in small businesses. On knowhow side, all sorts of workshops like accounting, tax, product development, all that stuff. So they're gaining that knowledge and we bring in mentors as well that can like yourself, a mentor, right?
[00:23:44] Azhelle Wade: I'm part of this incubator, although I might be after this. But I do have like a, a group of women similar educational businesses like do. Yeah. Yeah. And we're constantly sharing funding opportunities. The reason I have interns coming business that I do is cuz my friend was like, For interns, state pays for You know, and she's, and you know, just sharing those ideas.
[00:24:04] So really important that support. I think it's important that you're, when you have an idea to start a business, to think about the smartest way that you start it, right? Yes. Like, and maybe an incubator as opposed to do everything yourself is a smart way. Did have funding, other than your Kickstarter for your business?
[00:24:21] Joe Barron: essentially bootstrapped whole business.
[00:24:23] Azhelle Wade: Wow. Yeah. Okay, cool. Yeah. Game. This is a cool story. Yes. Tell how word came to be?
[00:24:31] Joe Barron: Yeah, so we did just a, a class project with, the graphic design students from College of DuPage, Uhhuh .
[00:24:38] Azhelle Wade: How are you connected to them?
[00:24:39] Joe Barron: So, college of DuPage is one of the founding members of Innovation DuPage. The incubator accelerator that we work with. Okay. So work with, as like their capstone project. bring in real clients do real projects will someday be commercially available. Right. So this just started as an idea of a game. Mm-hmm. and we, we did all the packaging. They actually helped like figure out the game play. So we did some play testing with them. And you know, now it's at Barnes Noble, nationwide.
[00:25:11] Azhelle Wade: many students worked on this game?
[00:25:13] Joe Barron: Three.
[00:25:14] Azhelle Wade: And how long did you work with them on this game?
[00:25:17] Joe Barron: about four months of them working on the packaging together. And then I worked with another group to do, there's electric timer. Yeah. In here. We worked with them on like the industrial design and doing the, the timer because it's a big important part of the game. Yeah. And there's a fun with timer. When we were play testing original original timer, it only. sound and of the play testers had parents that were deaf, they couldn't oh, wow. They couldn't use the timer. Oh so we an L e D that on when you hit it, and then when it gets to five seconds, starts flashing faster faster. Wow. and then it. Stops when it's done. So now there's 80. What I came to find out, million people are hard of hearing worldwide. Yeah. now they can access the game as well.
[00:26:01] Azhelle Wade: And calls like your original kind of why statement of want games that the whole family Young to old like any ability also. Right. So that's really good. And then I have to say like he has at the bottom here of all the students on the box of who participated. And I think that's so important. Cuz I remember when I was, when I graduated. Yeah. And Working in toy design. That I had all like internship work to try to get real world experience. you're trying to do this internship work it's a full-time job you're in school. what you come out with is it's like a, not a full, you know, gonna have a long shelf life Right. these have they can get jobs out and like, I actually worked developing a product.
[00:26:44] Joe Barron: Yeah. to interview. team.
[00:26:46] Azhelle Wade: Where is this available?
[00:26:47] Joe Barron: Nationwide at Barnes and Noble Nation.
[00:26:48] Azhelle Wade: have a product that's in Barnes Noble. Yes, you. me. you know, I just graduated, already have a product that's in Barnes and Noble. No, that's just, that's amazing. Yeah. That's a great program's. So fun. Yeah. Okay, so wanna, okay, I wanna ask more stories about your struggle. Have you experienced any struggle at all as you've been your games brand?
[00:27:06] Joe Barron: Yeah. I think one big as your as are growing faster, the grow Yeah. Inventory. right? So Of cash that goes up front. Yeah. And it's seasonal cuz a lot of it's sold during the holidays. like, oh man, we're gonna like triple the business year. Where am I gonna find all the money to the print runs. Right. the side of as well. all of went the, all the supply chain issues. Yeah, yeah, yeah. you know, a container which is $27,000. Yeah. A container was, went
[00:27:38] to
[00:27:38] $27,000. Yeah, yeah. But now we're back down to eight. now yeah. So it's Yeah, it's better. But wait, it's question. you, all, do you the first big order? Did you know your first big order was coming before you got it?
[00:27:52] Yeah. You know, bigger retailers, they're planning out projecting a a year to nine months ahead. So get like your award letter well before you would, you'd put in order. But that lead time is getting like like, you get the award and it's like, man, gotta get this to our distributor in like months. Like it's getting very tight.
[00:28:11] Azhelle Wade: Oh, okay. So the first time you got that award letter I'm curious, like, what did you do, did you end taking a loan?
[00:28:17] Did you end up saying like, we need, well, you know, you did everything bootstrapped. Yes. Did you say we're gonna savings? Like, how did you feel? I wanna know.
[00:28:24] Joe Barron: Yeah. It's like all like you. And you're like, the money comes back in nine months. Likes going on nine Yeah, right. I mean, you out different ways to, to, you know, can take loans against your ira, loans against your 401k that you can pay back and it's, it's difficult because you're first out, there's no like bank financing, Years of financials to show them that you're a profitable bus business. Yeah. So can get, to the point where we can go and like a of credit have some, and some of that financial stress that
[00:29:01] Azhelle Wade: I find it's even hard to get a grant because grants are like, can you show proof of your business being a business for a certain amount of time?
[00:29:11] Yeah.
[00:29:11] Joe Barron: It's time consuming out the grants. Yeah. It's one
[00:29:14] Azhelle Wade: I'm filling out for like minority businesses. Literally, it's like 35 documents. On the last question, there were like 30 questions. The like documents, and some of them have to be notarized. I'm like, oh my goodness.
[00:29:28] Okay, I wanna wrap up and give you my final questions for today. Number. What was, what Toy blew your mind as a kid?
[00:29:35] Joe Barron: What toy blew my mind as a kid. Ooh. I, I think the, the, one early on was the Furby. because like really you could interact with
[00:29:43] Azhelle Wade: Really? they was it was like so creepy.
[00:29:45] are creeped me are creepy,
[00:29:47] Joe Barron: but was something you could like, interact with and like, I agree. Now I look back, it's like, was crazy. There's there's a little creep back
[00:29:54] Azhelle Wade: you plan to expand into anything other than games?
[00:29:57] Joe Barron: that will into games. Uhhuh . have a passion around Alzheimer's, cuz both my grandparents passed away. Oh. From Alzheimer's. Sorry. actually donate a meaningful portion of our profits to the Alzheimer's. Oh, that's really nice association. Yeah. So I we will, we'll look into going. That have games that can help with Alzheimer's or that are neurodiverse mental health. Yeah. I just see games really and bring people together. And e even like, it doesn't help your mental side, going in and with an Alzheimer's patient, like a, way to interact with them. Yeah. Versus like there and like, do we do with grandma?
[00:30:37] Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:30:38] Versus like, a, game where you can just find a way to have an interaction with them.
[00:30:42] Oh, that. Nice. Yeah.
[00:30:44] Azhelle Wade: Oh, my grandfather struggled with that, so he kept calling me my mom and stuff. And you don't know what to do, like Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's me.
[00:30:50] Joe Barron: And it's like, let's just have fun. like, yeah. Come up with mu, like lot of them, like they, remember music from forties Yeah, yeah. But don't name. Right. That's a great idea. How do you bring back out some of those memories from them? excited hear how that goes for you. That sounds like a great idea. Thank you.
[00:31:08] Azhelle Wade: where can people buy? 4000 stores right? Yes. Yeah. Where e lse can they buy Tell name some stores, websites.
[00:31:15] Joe Barron: So you can all of our stores are listed on Gray Matters games.com. Okay. of, our, I, we have over 500 independent toying game stores. type in your address, it'll show you your local store that you can buy them. Yes. And then Ru Beer Float is at Barnes Noble, Meyer, Khols, Amazon word wipe out is Barnes and Noble, up in Canada, also on Amazon.
[00:31:38] Azhelle Wade: Amazing. you for being here today. Thank you, Joe. This is you. Been fun? Yeah, it was great.
[00:31:42] people. I'm here at CHITAG with Rebecca Jetton of Goliath Toys and Games. This is a global games company, thousands of titles. Okay, so I'm excited to dive into this today.
[00:31:53] So Rebecca, I've gotta ask, I usually ask people this question from the beginning. Did you always know you were gonna work in the toy and game space?
[00:32:01] Rebecca Jetton: I did not. No. Okay. But it's something that I've always thought about. I was lucky enough to get a job working here and it's amazing.
[00:32:09] Azhelle Wade: So what, what kind of marketing did you do before Goliath? Toys and games?
[00:32:13] Rebecca Jetton: I did a variety of places. I worked for a computer products company. I worked for Sony Pictures. I worked for a company that manufactures air compressors. So this by far is way more fun. It's the best.
[00:32:24] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. So tell me, I, I would love to hear like, day to day, what's the biggest difference you see in working on air compressors versus chicken poop Bingo market.
[00:32:34] Rebecca Jetton: Is that even a question? ? I mean, we get to actually play these games, so we help like work with our r and d department. They're great, you know, coming up with all of these different fun games. But in addition, like this one was last year's Young Inventor award. Yeah. So this was Cooper Dean, our R and D department worked with her to create this game, this little chicken. He does a little walk and he actually poops out on the board. And then you use little poop coupons to mark your little area to create bingo.
[00:33:06] Azhelle Wade: I was a judge on this year's young inventor's. So for those of you that don't know CHITAG is also a part of People of Play. People of Play puts on an annual young Inventor's challenge. Cooper Dean. Cooper Dean was the 2019 winner of the Young Inventor Challenge. And she got a licensing deal after that and it turned into this game with Goliath Toys. I did at the end of my submission as a judge for this challenge, I wrote that she should be the winner.
[00:33:31] I don't know if my husband, he also judged this challenge, wrote that as well, but we love chicken poop. Bingo. So, so I love chicken poop. Bingo. One of my favorite. But I'm curious, while working with an inventor, do you know why your r and d team was drawn to this game out of all of the games that were submitted or that there were to choose from?
[00:33:49] What do you think was so special about chicken poop?
[00:33:52] Rebecca Jetton: I think it's actually special because it's actually based on something that happens in real life.
[00:33:58] Azhelle Wade: So, how do you play chicken poo? Bingo. So
[00:34:01] Rebecca Jetton: first off, you take this little chicken head off. And then there's a little funnel. You put the little poop in there. Then you reattach the head, all the way.
[00:34:11] Azhelle Wade: And there's like a board in here, right?
[00:34:13] Rebecca Jetton: So here's a little board. Nice. It's our chicken poop Bingo board.
[00:34:19] So then here you would get little bingo card. Okay, cool. Oh, it's so cute. And then there's like these little
[00:34:26] Azhelle Wade: That is hilarious. That are your little markers. That is hilarious. You would So poop emoji markers. That's so. So you would fill him up, wind him up, and then let him, and he walks around and, and then he like poops whenever he feels fit. Yep. Look at him. Go. So he'll go around and he'll poop. And wherever he lands you. Your bingo card, whoever gets five in a row, first wins.
[00:34:51] Rebecca Jetton: You are correct.
[00:34:51] Azhelle Wade: Awesome. And now Cooper, the lucky inventor behind chicken poop Bingo has her face on the back of this box for as long as it's in retail.
[00:34:59] Where can people purchase chicken poop? Bingo.
[00:35:02] Rebecca Jetton: It's available at Walmart, target, Amazon, a few other small stores.
[00:35:07] Azhelle Wade: Does Goliath Games often work with inventors, not just young inventors from the Young Inventor challenge?
[00:35:13] Rebecca Jetton: Yes. Yes, we do. We actually have on our website, there's a link that you can click on and it'll take you right to our r and d department, and we can leave them a message and they'll give you a call back.
[00:35:23] Azhelle Wade: And I do know there's like this you did mention before we started rolling that there's a fun surprise element to some of your really popular toys and games. So that is something for you inventor submitting to keep in mind when you're submitting concepts and creating ideas for Goliath, try to figure out that fun toyetic moment, that surprise element that'll get kids wanting to keep coming back again and again.
[00:35:44] Okay, let's move on to trash stash.
[00:35:48] Rebecca Jetton: So Trash stash it's actually a really fun game. And not only is it fun, but it teaches kids like dexterity. So they actually will have a deck of cards, uhhuh, and on the deck of cards, they'll flip it over and there's a bunch of little pieces of trash laying around. So you'll see these little pieces of trash. They flip it over and it'll be, you'll see a card with a color and a little figurine on it.
[00:36:09] So this one, you would pick up any color dead fish. Oh. And you put it in this little trash can, and then you move your hand right here, and it flips the trash can into the dumpster. Oh, very cool. And the more times that happens, the dumpster gets full and he's gonna get sick. Ooh. And throw it all up on you.
[00:36:29] So how do you win this game? Well, you lose if you get thrown up on, oh, okay.
[00:36:33] Azhelle Wade: And this is a brand new toy. I know that you specifically wanted to debut this toy at this fair. Why is that?
[00:36:41] Rebecca Jetton: Look at all the kids. Yeah. And look how much they love trash. Yeah. , that's the perfect, perfect combination.
[00:36:46] Azhelle Wade: Is this story one of the toys being demoed at your table today? It is, it is. What has been some of the feedback you hear from kids when they play this game?
[00:36:54] Rebecca: Ah, I'm like, they're just excited. Yeah. Dumping, dumping, dumping. They just. Keep going and going, and then the moment the mouth opens and all the toys come out on top of
[00:37:04] them, they're like,
[00:37:06] Azhelle Wade: now I'm curious, is this a game that you developed internally or that you worked with an inventor on?
[00:37:10] Rebecca: We worked with an inventor on this one. With this one
[00:37:12] Azhelle Wade: And then now I'm, I feel like I wanna throw one more thing out there for people that might be watching and maybe they wanna be a part of a company like Goliath. Where can they go to learn more about how to join your team, how to become a part of the Goliath family?
[00:37:24] We do a lot
[00:37:24] Rebecca Jetton: of posting on Indeed and various other job posting sites.
[00:37:28] So just keep your eyes
[00:37:29] Azhelle Wade: Okay. And my last question I'd love to ask for people on the podcast is, what Toy blew your mind as a kid?
[00:37:36] Rebecca Jetton: I was a big Hungry, hungry Hippo fan. Ooh, that's a good one. I actually like that one. That's a good game. I love that game. Okay, and what was yours?
[00:37:43] Azhelle Wade: Poly pockets. I was obsessed. I had a problem. I had a lot like a bag this tall, just like filled with Polly pockets. Loved them. Love, love. Thank you so much for being here today, Rebecca.
[00:37:54] Well, there you have it toy people. I hope you enjoyed those interviews. Before we jump into our summary of today's episode and the teachable moments, I wanna take a quick break and give a shout out to Evolved teacher for her review of the podcast, a all teacher. What a gift. This podcast is such a gift.
[00:38:14] Anyone who is interested in creating anything could benefit from listening. Each show is not only value packed, but also very inspiring. Thank you so much for that review, and I'm happy to share it on the show. . Now let's get into the conclusions of what we learned today. I've got three important takeaways for you.
[00:38:35] One, the limitations of your home or living space might actually have some great ideas for a board game within them. Much like Kate's Ultimate Treehouse game inspired by her kids who lived in an apartment at the time who wanted to create their own treehouse.
[00:38:54] Okay, number two, I want you to consider marketability When you're developing your toy or game ideas, how will the theme that you are developing your idea around perform on things like social media? Can you adjust your game or your toy to fit current trends? If it's word games or true. . The third thing I want you to walk away with is this.
[00:39:18] In-person trade shows or fairs are a great place to test out your product. Do not skip on the opportunity to get in front of kids and parents and see how they react to your product. It could help you make changes that will help make your. Product a success long term. Now, your action item for this week is to enjoy the holidays toy people.
[00:39:44] As always, thank you so much for spending this time with me today. I know your time is valuable and that there are a ton of podcasts out there, so it truly means the world to me that you tune into this one. Until next week, I'll see you later toy people.
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