Episode #152: Why This Mission-Driven Doll Line Offers 100+ Custom Skin Tones with Dr. Lisa Williams
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It is a myth that toys are shallow or don’t make an impact on kids. Today’s guest was inspired to leave a tenured position as the top professor in her field to create a meaningful line of dolls. Listen to today’s episode to discover what inspired her and how she made it happen.
Dr. Lisa Williams started off her career as the first black person to receive a doctorate in logistics from The Ohio State University. She became the top professor in her field, had a tenured position, and even had a multimillion-dollar endowed chair dedicated to her position that she could use for research, students, or studies. However, one day she saw a little girl interviewed in a study about dolls and race that changed her life forever.
After seeing the interview, Dr. Lisa Williams was inspired to create a line of racially diverse dolls with custom-blended skin tones. Since she didn’t have a background in the toy industry, she came up with her own methods of developing realistic skin tones for a variety of shades. Today, her brands The Fresh Dolls, The Fresh Squad, Positively Perfect, and the new Black Panther: Wakanda Forever dolls, are featured in Wal-Mart, Target, Macy’s, and more.
In today’s episode, you will learn which role models inspired Dr. Lisa Williams, the unique way she created the custom blended skin tones for her dolls, how she found her way in the toy industry with a background in academia, and more.
EPISODE CLIFF NOTES
Learn about a role model who inspired Dr. Lisa Williams to be whatever she wanted to be. [00:02:20]
Find out the ways Dr. Lisa Williams encountered and dealt with racism in academia [00:03:38]
Learn about the unconventional methods Dr. Lisa Williams used to create more realistic skin tones for her dolls. [00:09:57]
Find out about the powerful experience that led Dr. Lisa Williams to leave her tenured position and create black and brown dolls with accurate skin tones. [00:11:36]
Learn about the time Dr. Lisa Williams said “no” to Walmart. [00:15:37]
Learn how Dr. Lisa Williams worked on the Black Panther: Wakanda Forever dolls to give them a specialty feeling. [00:21:04]
Find out about an exciting patent pending hair technology for dolls created by Dr. Lisa Williams and her team. [00:21:32]
Learn about the challenges of manufacturing and packaging dolls with textured hair. [00:22:59]
Find out what Dr. Lisa Williams did in one moment when she wanted to quit, and why she didn’t. [00:24:16]
Learn the best advice Dr. Lisa Williams received in the toy industry. [00:34:44]
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This episode is brought to you by www.thetoycoach.com
Follow Dr. Lisa Williams on LinkedIn.
Follow Dr. Lisa Williams on Instagram.
Follow The Fresh Dolls on Instagram.
Visit The Fresh Dolls’ website by clicking here.
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[00:00:00] Dr. Lisa: I went to interview for one of the positions open at the Ohio State University, and the professor said to me one of the interviews, he says, What makes you think you can come to Ohio State? And I'm like, well, I have good grades. I've been a great student. He said, well, we've never had an African American in our program before. What makes you think? Honestly, he said that. What makes you think you can succeed? and I was like, I just know that I can do it.
[00:00:25] Azhelle Wade: You are listening to Making It in The Toy Industry, episode number 152.
[00:00:30] Hey there toy people, Azhelle Wade here and welcome back to another episode of the Toy Coach Podcast, Making It In The Toy Industry. This is a weekly podcast brought to you by thetoycoach.com. From professor to entrepreneur and creator of new Black Panther: Wakanda Forever dolls, named Doll of the Year, this year in 2022. Dr. Lisa Williams was ,inspired to change how African American children viewed themselves through dolls. As Walmart said in its 2020 TV spot about her.
[00:01:15] She started this line as a side hustle, turned it into this extraordinary black owned doll company of our time, Intentional and mission driven. Dr. Lisa set out to give young girls of color something they didn't have. Dolls who reflected their beauty and brilliance. Her brands include The Fresh Dolls, The Fresh Squad, Positively Perfect. They celebrate diversity and self love, and I'm so excited to welcome to this show, The world of EPI Creator and owner, Dr. Lisa Williams. Welcome to the show.
[00:01:47] Dr. Lisa: Woohoo for that introduction. My goodness is like, And who are you talking about?
[00:01:51] Azhelle Wade: You thank your team, your team. I read it and I was like, Oh, this team is, I need this team. Dr. Lisa has the best team. Amazing. I mean, there was so much more, I have to say. We'll get into. and break down, even more. But I learned about you just through asking your team to see if you could be on this show. The information they sent over to me. I was so impressed. So we're gonna talk I wanna know more about you. I thought I knew, but I don't know. So let's go. Let's go.
[00:02:21] I, I wanna talk about your toy story. I wanna go into struggle and then I want us to end with success. So, to start off with your toy story, Dr. Lisa, before you were a toy entrepreneur, you were a professor at Penn State University and I didn't know this, the first African American to receive a doctorate in logistics from Ohio State University.
[00:02:40] Dr. Lisa: Yes. The only correction is it's the Ohio State University.
[00:02:45] Azhelle Wade: From the Ohio State University? I know places, yeah. Okay. The Ohio State University. I mean, I wanna start out by learning who raised you to be such a high achiever? What was, What was your mom like? What was she?
[00:02:59] Dr. Lisa: My mom is still incredible.
[00:03:01] Azhelle Wade: Okay. I'm sorry.
[00:03:02] Dr. Lisa: You know what? No, no. And, and I will tell you, you're right. As a child, I remember one moment in time, we were in the living room cleaning, you know, its Saturday chores. I don't know about you, but every Saturday you gotta get up and do the chores, right? So we're doing the chores and she's just talking and I'm talking to her and she said, You know, you could be anything you want tobe. And I'm like, Yeah, yeah, okay. I'm, She said, No, you can be a doctor if you want to.
[00:03:27] Now I'm like, maybe seven years old, but it's stuck. And so as I start going through school, it was like, well, I can, I can be whatever I wanna be. I can do whatever I wanna do. And when I wanted to become a professor, I went to interview for the, one of the positions open at the Ohio State University, and the professor said to me one of the interviews, he says, What makes you think you can come to Ohio State?
[00:03:51] And I'm like, Well, I have good grades. I've been a great student. He said, Well, we've never had an African American in our program before. What makes you think? Honestly, he said that, What makes you think you can succeed? and I was like, I just know that I can do it. And then he went on to compare me to other ethnicities. You know, like we know that our Caucasian students do well and we know our Native Indians do well from India. but we have no idea. We've never had a black person in our program. We don't think that you guys can stand the rigor of our program.
[00:04:21] Azhelle Wade: So like, this is reminding me I need to talk to my mom more about her past because you know, we feel like peers in so many ways and then I just forget you grew up in such a different time. like so much more challenging, which put so much more weight on the major win of the tody also. So, Okay. Go on, Go on. I mean, I can't even imagine what I would say if somebody said that to me. I.
[00:04:44] Dr. Lisa: Oh, it was rather shocking. But that's when you pull from within, right? That's when you pull from within and you like, I can do this. Do I have any evidence I can do this? No, I don't cuz I've never done it before. Is there anyone I can point to and say, Well he did it or she did it? No, I can't cuz yeah, I was the first, but it was just something that said, Well, it, it's been done before. Right? There have been people who have graduated from the Ohio State University.
[00:05:09] Azhelle Wade: Yeah.
[00:05:10] Dr. Lisa: Well, if there have been people, then I can do that too.
[00:05:13] Azhelle Wade: You're like, I can be people.
[00:05:14] Dr. Lisa: I can be people.
[00:05:16] Azhelle Wade: Wow. So you always, because your mom then, when you were a child, you dreamed big. I think your mom saying specifically something that you could have been helped so much, right?
[00:05:27] Dr. Lisa: Yeah. I think it made the difference and I wasn't even conscious that it was you know, being absorbed into my being she just said I could be a doctor. I'm like, Okay. I kept cleaning and dusting off of silverware. You know, no big deal. But it stuck with me and through all of those challenges and you know, that's just one. But I have been, I guess I will now say fortunate to be the first in many things. And It takes a lot to be the first.
[00:05:53] Because you don't have a role model. Not only do you not, others around you don't, so they don't have the faith that you can do it, so you really have to pull within yourself. There isn't a roadmap. There isn't anything. There isn't a book that you could read and say, Oh, you do this first, then you do that, and then. All of that's outta the water. You're really going by your north star. You're really going by within, what is your heart? What is your intuition telling you that's best to do?
[00:06:20] Azhelle Wade: Oh my gosh. what I see is so different from you and, and it's probably because of the time you grew up in just this, resilience that's, Unwavered by other people's opinions, whereas I feel like my generation has, I mean, me, I'm thinking myself specifically, I have resilience, but I think growing up in the air of social media, it is influenced by other people's opinions.
[00:06:45] So it might not be destroyed by other people's opinions, but it's influenced. But you seem to have this. Maybe it's cuz you didn't grow up in the era of social media where it's like your belief in yourself is strong and other people's opinions isn't gonna make you think like, I can't do this. It's just gonna make you think like, Oh, I have to convince you that I can do this. You're the problem. Like you are the problem.
[00:07:07] Dr. Lisa: Exactly. And you know, I, I say this all the time. I have a favorite quote, and I'm horrible with quotes, so I'm probably gonna botch it. But in essence, the quote is, those that are dancing seem to be insane by those who can't hear the music.
[00:07:21] Azhelle Wade: Ooh. Okay. Yeah, that is good.
[00:07:22] Dr. Lisa: Right? You get it. So for me, I have my own internal music. We all do. We all have our own internal music. Now the question is, are we gonna listen to our own internal music or are we gonna let somebody else tell us what our music should be. When we're.
[00:07:36] Azhelle Wade: That's so good.
[00:07:37] Stop
[00:07:37] Dr. Lisa: it.
[00:07:38] Azhelle Wade: Okay. No, that's so good.
[00:07:41] Dr. Lisa: Well, and it's, And if when you are listening to your own internal music, everybody else thinks you're insane. I mean, they just do. Right? But you hear the music and so you are dancing to your own internal beat, and that is why you know what direction to go and how to do it because you're following your own internal guidance.
[00:07:58] Azhelle Wade: Oh my gosh. I didn't expect to get inspired this early in the conversation, , Everyone out there must be thinking like, Oh there's been a time where I went on my toy journey. And I was going to the beat of my own drum, and then someone told me to do something different and I followed them and then things started to not work because they weren't following their own path.
[00:08:15] Dr. Lisa: Oh my gosh. Don't do that. I can tell you when I first started my toy journey, and we haven't gotten it how I got here, but let's just dig dig into. Well, let's just dig into getting here. So I came into this toy industry without any education in toys. No connections, no education, no information, no mentoring, and no money.
[00:08:34] Azhelle Wade: Right.
[00:08:35] Dr. Lisa: Was nothing but this passion to do it. And so many people told me, Don't do it. You're gonna lose your money. You're gonna lose everything. It's a waste of time. It's too expensive to get into. Don't do it. And I began to think, well, you know, I don't have any background in this. They're right. I have nothing.
[00:08:53] I have nothing to pull from. I have no experience. There's nobody I can call and say, How do you do this? But once I realized that that was not a negative, but that that was my asset, that was my unique contribution, is that I didn't have any education in and I didn't know anybody. I didn't have any connections. I didn't have any.
[00:09:12] So, because I didn't have any of those traditional things, I had to come up with creative things. When I talk about custom blending skin tones, I didn't know there was a Pantone book. Nobody told me that, right? So I had to come up with a new way of coming up with truly rich, reflective, and authentic skin tone. So I began to custom blend them with makeup and coming up with the right skin.
[00:09:36] Azhelle Wade: Yeah, so let's talk about that. So you did and we've worked together. So I've gone through your marketing copy and you do say custom blended skin tones. That's what the Fresh doll's all about. And then I've seen other companies kind of copy this marketing copy as well, and we've talked about like what that really means. So like when you started doing it, what were you actually doing that, you called it custom blended skin tones?
[00:10:00] Dr. Lisa: I was actually trying to get the skin tones right. When I would walk on the shelf, I would see dolls that were either really peachy or they were really too gray, or they were too red and too ready. They didn't have the right skin tone and they didn't have the right undertone. People of color typically have a undertone, whether it could be blue, it could be yellow, it could be red, but you gotta get that right mix together. And so I knew that much. I may not have known there was a Pantone book to go to, but I did know it was important to get our skin tones right.
[00:10:33] Azhelle Wade: And so what'd you do?
[00:10:35] Dr. Lisa: First I started dealing with paints, literally going to the craft store, getting paints and mixing, trying to remember, okay, I used two drops of this brown, two drops of that beige, two drops of this yellow, What did you come up with? That looks pretty close. No, too much. You know, so I just kind of, I kinda played, and then I had the epiphany, Oh, you can go to makeup stores and get makeup and say, I mean, really it was a process. Then I went, started buying makeup and even the makeup wasn't right.
[00:11:02] I would buy, makeup on the, on the shelves. And I'm like, That's too ashy, that's too gray. That's too. Once again, I would take that and I would add a little bit of blue or a little bit of yellow or a little bit of white to get the right skin tone. and then I just kept working on it and kept working on it and hopefully we're getting closer to perfecting it and nothing is ever perfect. Everything is always a work in progress, but hopefully we're getting closer and closer to perfecting it.
[00:11:25] Azhelle Wade: So when the fresh dolls say we have custom blended skin tones, that's what that means?
[00:11:30] Dr. Lisa: That's exactly what that means. It means that they are not just off the shelf, they have been custom blended for this particular doll's ethnicity.
[00:11:40] Azhelle Wade: That's amazing. Okay. Well, what was the mission of world of EPI when you first started it?
[00:11:45] Dr. Lisa: Well, it goes back to the whole thing about skin tones, right? So I was a professor, as you said, and I was the top professor in my field, be it black, white, male, or female. I was the highest ranking person in the world. Yay. Yes. I was, you know, as professors, I had multimillion dollar endowed chair that I was dedicated, I had dedicated to me to spend for research or studies or students. So life was going really, really well. And I had tenure. So that means I had a job for life. I could not be fired.
[00:12:14] So I had this great gig for life. But then I watched an updated doll study with Anderson Cooper and Soledad O'Brien. And in that study just highlighted, they asked this beautiful little black girl about the doll she wanted to play with, whether it was a black doll or a white doll, and she surprisingly picked the white doll. But what broke my heart is when she said why she picked the white doll and she picked the white doll because she said the black doll skin tone was nasty.
[00:12:43] Azhelle Wade: Mm.
[00:12:44] Dr. Lisa: And then Azhelle, she literally touched her hand indicating her skin tone was nasty.
[00:12:52] Azhelle Wade: Oh.
[00:12:52] Dr. Lisa: Yeah. So how can you watch that and just get up off yourself and go back to your life?
[00:12:58] Azhelle Wade: Most people would, I actually, my ne my next question for you is what in the world moved you so deeply to wanna be the person to do something about it? Not just maybe donate or volunteer time or maybe teach your students things, What made you wanna do something so high risk and so direct to like, affect that problem?
[00:13:22] Dr. Lisa: Well, it was incredibly high risk because I walked away from a job for life into the unknown of an industry that, again, I knew nothing about. But what touched me so deeply is that she was a little black girl that I related to. I had a mom who told me I could be anything I wanted to, and I'm not saying her parents didn't. I'm sure her parents have, but society, I think, sometimes bleeds into what our parents.
[00:13:46] And somewhere she got messaging that dark skin was unattractive. And that just touched me to the depths of my core because I saw that little girl, not only in myself, but I also saw her in my classroom because I'm teaching 20 something year old young women in my classroom and I'm seeing self-esteem issues. I'm seeing them not speak up in class. I'm seeing that they're brilliant, but that they weren't secure in knowledge and knowing that they were brilliant.
[00:14:16] So I tried to help them in their twenties, but here I felt, and I don't think it was even conscious, but here I felt you can start earlier. You can start with toys and dolls and change that little girl's life, other little girls' lives. Cause not only are you changing her life, You're changing her family's life, you're changing her future, and in essence, you're changing society. And that matched with my belief in education being the power of changing lives in society. So it's kind of that.
[00:14:45] Azhelle Wade: Do I feel like I'm at church right now, Dr. Lisa . It's very good. How many years ago was that?
[00:14:51] Dr. Lisa: oh my, that was when I saw the study, I think it was 2009 or 2010.
[00:14:57] Azhelle Wade: So do you remember, It was a long time ago, but do you remember what your first step was? like, did you immediately decide, I'm gonna make dolls, and then I wanna know what your first step was, or what were the steps to get you to think I'm gonna make dolls?
[00:15:10] Dr. Lisa: So 2009 or 10 is when I saw the study, but I actually was doing a line of, books for children earlier than that, like 2005. And so I was asked by a major retailer if I would do a line of dolls in the image and likeness of the characters in my books. And I said, Absolutely not there's no way I'm doing dolls. It's like I'm doing children's books and I feel like I'm making some good in life because all my books were inclusive.
[00:15:40] So we had Caucasian children and African American children, and Asian, Latino, Afro-Latino. All the children represented in our books. And so I felt this is a contribution and it helped with literacy, but when they asked me to do dolls, I'm like, I don't even know what they're made of, let alone how to do it. So.
[00:15:58] Azhelle Wade: Polypro Who? No.
[00:16:00] Dr. Lisa: Exactly. You got it. Well, no. What is that Even, I was like, no, thank. You'll pass.
[00:16:06] Azhelle Wade: So wait, I'm sorry. I didn't know you had a line of books. So what was this line of books and, and what was it about?
[00:16:12] Dr. Lisa: It's so
[00:16:13] Azhelle Wade: learning so much.
[00:16:14] Dr. Lisa: Yes. We did a lot. I did a line of books. Well, I did a, a book first, a business book and it was called Leading Beyond Excellence. And just short break it for you, I had achieved so much success at relatively early age and I wanted to know what truly was success. Is it money, is it title, et cetera. And so I interviewed several major CEOs of Walmart Seers, et cetera, et cetera. And what I found out is that they felt like I did. And that success isn't money success isn't title.
[00:16:41] But success is are you living a life of excellence? Meaning are you making a difference in someone else's life? That's what true success is, right? So that book did very well. And then Walmart came and said, Hey, would you mind doing a line of children's books because we think you understand story telling. And I said, no, I don't know anything about children's literature. I'll pass on that. Thank you so much. you got to realize that.
[00:17:10] Azhelle Wade: Who says No to Walmart. I'm good, thanks.
[00:17:12] Dr. Lisa: I'm good. I'm good.
[00:17:15] Azhelle Wade: That's how much success she had.
[00:17:17] Dr. Lisa: That's it. I was gonna say, I'm the, I'm the largest, one of the most recognizable professors in my field, globally, so I'm like no, I'm not gonna leave this right now.
[00:17:26] Azhelle Wade: Right.
[00:17:26] Dr. Lisa: Ultimately I said, You know what, but you do believe in literacy. Yeah. You know nothing about publishing you know nothing about any, but you know, literacy. And so I was committed to that. So we did a line of children's books and then they asked them do a line of dolls and the image and likeness of the characters of the books because the children in the books were all multicultural. And I said, No, not once, not twice, but three times. I said No. But it was that little girl that I saw.
[00:17:51] Azhelle Wade: Oh.
[00:17:53] Dr. Lisa: When I was sitting on my sofa three weeks later. See how life just pulls things together?
[00:17:58] Azhelle Wade: I see the puzzle pieces were like out there and they just kind of all came together. Wow. Yeah. And the universe was like, Oh no, Dr. Lisa say no, now say no to this little girl.
[00:18:11] Dr. Lisa: I Say no Walmart. I can say no to Walmart.
[00:18:15] Azhelle Wade: Can't say no to
[00:18:16] Dr. Lisa: Can't say no to this little girl.
[00:18:18] Azhelle Wade: So after this little girl came you knew, you had, you had something on the table with Walmart, did you go back to them with a proposal of like, Okay, how about instead of what you want me to do, I do this
[00:18:28] Dr. Lisa: Yes. pretty much. But I, but I went back and I said, Hey, I don't know what I'm doing. I, I, you know, I, I didn't even play with dolls as a child. Right. I was a reader. a lot. No, I, My sister played with dolls. I. Didn't. I played for a little while, but I stopped playing early and started reading cuz I loved loved reading. So I didn't know anything about dolls. so I said, Hey, I don't know anything about this, but I'm willing to try, I'm willing to give this a try again. Again, there's no roadmap, right. It's not like.
[00:19:01] Look you girl.
[00:19:02] Someone else and do it, but I was willing to take that, that chance and so, I loved my position at the university and started creating dolls.
[00:19:12] Azhelle Wade: Whoa. I mean, whoa. Did you like at least get a purchase order from Walmart before you left or did you just like?
[00:19:21] Dr. Lisa: Now you
[00:19:21] Azhelle Wade: my heart.
[00:19:22] Dr. Lisa: now, now you making was a silly decision.
[00:19:25] Azhelle Wade: Oh, Obviously not. To winner. Obviously.
[00:19:30] Dr. Lisa: And that's so funny too because again, I keep going back to, I've had no training, no education, no classes, anything.
[00:19:36] Azhelle Wade: I do wanna say though, one of the things you clearly do have is a history of figuring things out, and then getting things done. So I just wanna say that for people that are listening, that are like, Okay, I'm just gonna quit my job and start it all like, like, hold on.
[00:19:49] Dr. Lisa: no, no. no. Oh, please let me let, Oh, please let me say this. No, no. No, no, no, no. Please do not do that , unless your heart is strongly telling you it's the right thing to do. Don't do that. Don't do that. I did not have a purchase order cuz as everyone listening knows that the Starter Doll company takes, when you're doing it by yourself, it takes the time I can't even describe.
[00:20:10] It takes 27 hours in a day. I mean, it, it,
[00:20:12] it just totally all. but what I did have is the book that I just talked about, the leadership book that was sold in, I had that book and I was going out and I was doing keynote speeches and training regarding that book. So it's, I was no longer a professor, but I wasn't destitute
[00:20:29] I was a, I transitioned.
[00:20:32] Azhelle Wade: Very, very smart. Yeah. And also I just think you have a history of, of getting things done too. So like you had your transition project that you were doing financially to keep you going, but then you, became a doctor, you had a history of putting your head down, reading, figuring out how to get things done, and then doing it.
[00:20:48] You're a person who is gonna see a problem, find solutions and implement them, which is rare, not everybody can do that. So was it hard for you once you started developing the dolls to match their skin tones? Like cuz you were blending them, but then the factories would get it. And how challenging was that?
[00:21:06] I know it was challenging, but how
[00:21:07] Dr. Lisa: It was incredibly challenging because I literally would fly over to China and sit there with them and they would mix up paint and I would like, no, no, no, And I would literally say things like, Add more blue. And they were like blue. And I'm like, Just trust me, add more blue and they'd add more blue and I'd say, Hmm, add a little bit more yellow.
[00:21:26] And then they would go away, Come back. And they would, and they were like, Ha, we got it. That's the skin tone.
[00:21:32] Azhelle Wade: How many fresh doll skin tones are there?
[00:21:34] Dr. Lisa: Oh gosh. There's honestly more than I can count and we are
[00:21:37] constantly developing. Seriously, seriously.
[00:21:40] Azhelle Wade: you saw I love that.
[00:21:42] Dr. Lisa: and we developed new skin tones for everybody. Like we did the Marvels Black Panther. Those are not our skin tone, meaning they're not in the E P I arsenal,
[00:21:49] Azhelle Wade: They're not cookie cutter skin tones where you're just dropping your same.
[00:21:52] Dr. Lisa: We, no, we did a whole, we those are different skin tones to represent those actual characters and
[00:21:58] Azhelle Wade: You see, No, like who does that? I mean, that is like so, such a specialty feeling and a mass market line.
[00:22:05] Dr. Lisa: Well, you know what? I think, again, me not having the background in
[00:22:10] Toys because see that it's kinda like when we did, the, the hair. Two of the characters, but one, we did locks, right? We did gypsy locks, we did dreadlocks. And you know, people are like, Oh, well just use this, pre-manufactured braid.
[00:22:23] And I'm like, That's not what that character, that's not a lock to me. I seen people walking in my community with locks and that's not
[00:22:30] it. So other people would've said, Well just use it anyway. Cause that's all that's out there. But you know, my team and I are like, Well, then we'll have to create it. If it doesn't exist, we'll have to create it.
[00:22:39] So we did, We created. Mass produced, never been done before. Patent
[00:22:44] pending. Oh, they're on the patent pending?
[00:22:47] they're on the Kia. Let's see, I just happened to have her here with me.
[00:22:52] Azhelle Wade: Oh my God. Perfect. Okay. I was about
[00:22:53] to Google it.
[00:22:54] Dr. Lisa: see?
[00:22:54] Azhelle Wade: Oh
[00:22:55] my gosh. You have locks.
[00:22:58] Dr. Lisa: Yes.
[00:22:58] Azhelle Wade: is so.
[00:23:00] Dr. Lisa: Mass produce. So that, I mean, that's working from the fiber.
[00:23:04] Azhelle Wade: cow. I don't think I've ever seen that before.
[00:23:08] Dr. Lisa: They do not exist. I mean, sometimes you'll see people do original one of a kind dolls and they'll, they'll do it by hand, but mass produced, no, they,
[00:23:16] Azhelle Wade: Patenting the process.
[00:23:18] You're patenting the process.
[00:23:19] Dr. Lisa: the process. Yes,
[00:23:20] Azhelle Wade: Oh my high five. Dr. Lisa. Okay. virtual high five. Wow. Look at you. Okay. Did you have, problems protecting the hair that you were making in packaging? Cuz I know that's a major issue for black texture hair. Just, I don't know why.
[00:23:36] Dr. Lisa: Well, I'll tell you, I had two problems. One was protecting it in packaging because it is unique. It, it's not straight, so it doesn't quote unquote stay in place. It has to be secured. but also the hair and the textures that we use are typically more expensive. So I also have had problems with factories.
[00:23:53] Short cutting. I will see a sample and the sample looks beautiful and it's full and it's luscious. And then I'll see it on the shelf and
[00:24:01] I'm like, What is this? This is not what I approved. Why are there these why gaps in between the, the rooting of the hair, It's because of the expense of it. So quality control and staying on top of your product to make sure that the vision you have in your heart is actually, experienced on the shelf is
[00:24:18] another process.
[00:24:20] Azhelle Wade: So do you have a moment, and I'm sure you do, cause I know you already because we're we're close. But where you were just like, I don't know if I can keep going. I don't know if I can do this. and if you had that moment, what motivated you to get through it?
[00:24:34] Dr. Lisa: Did you say moment as in singular?
[00:24:36] Azhelle Wade: Yeah, Okay.
[00:24:41] Yeah.
[00:24:42] Dr. Lisa: about moment as I
[00:24:44] Azhelle Wade: I, I would say like the biggest moment where you look back and you, and now you see it and you're like, Oh, I was really about to walk away.
[00:24:52] I was really,
[00:24:53] Dr. Lisa: listen, I remember the day, slash evening like it was yesterday. I had some challenges. That's, that's the reason we wanna give up. When it, and it seemed like you had given everything I was. Physically exhausted. Spiritually deplete cuz you give it, all. Right. I had used my finances cuz as I said, I didn't have any investors, so I put all of my money, my time, my energy in it, and it didn't seem like it was working as I thought it should be.
[00:25:15] So I said, I'm done. That's it. I've given it all. And I remember calling my mom, I said, Mom, I, I'm done. I've given it all. And she said, Well, why don't you wait till morning? And I'm like, Okay. It doesn't matter to me cause I'm through, it's over, but, But what I did is I had orders cuz you always have orders, so I had orders coming.
[00:25:35] And I talked to a dear friend of mine and I said to him, I have orders, but I'm quitting And I, I'm quitting, I'm done, but I'm only person of color out here doing dolls. At the time, I was the only, I'm the only African American person of color doing dolls. If I quit and leave these purchase orders open, I may damage others coming behind me that want to do dolls.
[00:25:58] And so I didn't want that to. So I went to sleep. that's what mom suggested. And I woke up and my friend called me. He says, I think I have an idea. And he connected with someone that connected with someone. And then I kept going just to fill those orders now, just so that the people coming behind me wouldn't have a bad mark because of something I did.
[00:26:17] But other than that, I thought I was gonna quit. But then of course, it's like you see a child with your doll or you read a letter, you know, you read a letter from a parent and it makes it all worthwhile.
[00:26:29] Azhelle Wade: Wow. Oh, so basically you were . That's so funny. You're like closing up shop and help your friends, helping you do it, and then next thing you know, you're like, It's three years later. And I'm like, Oh, I'm still .
[00:26:41] Dr. Lisa: I'm
[00:26:41] still
[00:26:42] Azhelle Wade: it. I'm still
[00:26:43] closing. So closing up shop, quote unquote. That's so funny. Oh man. How do you balance the stress of being an entrepreneur and keeping a healthy mind and body?
[00:26:52] Dr. Lisa: I haven't perfected that either. It's also work in progress, but for me it's meditation
[00:26:58] and it's exercise. Those two things, keep me centered and somewhat, sane, somewhat sane.
[00:27:06] Azhelle Wade: I've been wanting to get into meditation. What would you recommend for a newbie meditator? Is there someone you follow online or like how do you I don't
[00:27:14] Dr. Lisa: Oh boy.
[00:27:15] Azhelle Wade: I
[00:27:15] Dr. Lisa: actually meditating is just really watching your breath. It, it just, you know, counting in
[00:27:20] 1, 2, 3, 4, pausing to the count of four, breathing out to the count of four. It really is just that simple. And as you practice more, you do it longer and longer. And as you practice and watch. You calm down and you relax, and as you relax, ideas come to you.
[00:27:39] Inspiration comes to you, energy to keep going, comes to you , and then you realize that you are not alone. That there is a presence that is within you that is guiding and directing you, but
[00:27:52] Azhelle Wade: Okay, Dr. Lisa. So good. Oh my gosh. So what, what was, Well, actually, I already know the answer to this question now. I was gonna say, what was your first big break, but I think your first big break was when Walmart came to you and said, Make, let's make a doll line.
[00:28:07] Dr. Lisa: That was it.
[00:28:07] Azhelle Wade: so
[00:28:09] Dr. Lisa: That was it. That was my
[00:28:10] first
[00:28:10] Azhelle Wade: ran with it.
[00:28:11] It's amazing. So this year you went to
[00:28:14] Dr. Lisa: sometime crawled. I just wanna add sometime crawled cuz it was not an easy process, but
[00:28:18] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. That was your big break. So this year you went to the Tod's. Was it your first time ever being at the Tod's?
[00:28:24] Dr. Lisa: yes it
[00:28:25] was.
[00:28:26] Azhelle Wade: That's so cool. And you didn't just go to the tos, you wanted to
[00:28:30] Dr. Lisa: I know we had, we had been a finalist before for our fresh dolls, right? So it was like, I knew the process, but I think that was during the era of Covid. So, No one, you know, was during the pandemic. No one went, so I didn't go to the TOS that year. So we were nominated again this year, our finalist this year for tos.
[00:28:47] And it was open to, you know, we could all come and have fun and see each other. So I said, We're going to my team, we're going this year,
[00:28:55] Azhelle Wade: So tell me, what was that moment like when you were sitting there and they were announcing the category, and then you heard your brand be called, what went on in your mind?
[00:29:04] Dr. Lisa: I think talk about breathing. I think I may have lost my breath for a moment because you know, you hear them calling the names and the category is, and the da da da da da da da. And then the winner is, and time stops for a moment and then they say Black Panther wa kind of forever. And I'm sitting there for a moment.
[00:29:23] Did they
[00:29:24] actually say? Did, did they say? And then, but I realized they had said it because my team and my started grabbing my purse, grabbing my program. So I'm like, Okay, I guess it's time for me to stand up now.
[00:29:35] Azhelle Wade: Wow.
[00:29:36] Dr. Lisa: yeah, it was one of those moments time really did stand still.
[00:29:39] Azhelle Wade: Oh, that's amazing. And I saw your hair in all the photos. I've never seen you with big curly hair like that. That was awesome.
[00:29:46] Dr. Lisa: You know, I, you know, you never know if you're gonna win, but I did know that if I did, and if we had an opportunity to accept this award, that I wanted to accept it for all the black and brown little girls. I wanted to represent their hair texture. I wanted to represent even the dress I wanted to represent.
[00:30:05] The small guy, the underdog, you know, And so I just wanted to try to my best to embody that so I didn't just walk the stage. It wasn't just my team that I carried with me, but ideally it was those little girls and little boys and new entrepreneurs and new toy designers and those that have a dream in their heart to create a toy that I hope that I carry all of us on that stage that we all won by being that under.
[00:30:32] Azhelle Wade: Yes, for those that don't know Dr. Lisa or just can't see us right now, cuz this isn't mostly audio podcast. she normally has straight hair and when she accepted her tody award, she went and rocked like the curly kind of Afro esque Afro queen. It was just amazing. The photos were so cool
[00:30:52] Dr. Lisa: had the Braze and the Afro. Yes, I
[00:30:55] Azhelle Wade: And you have like a patterned outfit too, Like a,
[00:30:58] Dr. Lisa: Yes.
[00:30:59] Azhelle Wade: or something?
[00:31:00] Dr. Lisa: African You are very good. Yes. It was an African print to work with. Yeah. Yeah. It was a whole feel of, again, to represent. I mean, it was that little girl that got me started representing multicultural little girls, boy, and now if we're gonna win, then every multicultural child, every woman, every man, everyone that had a dream and the odds were stacked against you, we all walked that stage
[00:31:26] Azhelle Wade: so amazing. I gotta find the video. I wasn't there, but I gotta find the video. Okay. what retailers is your product currently in? Just for every, anyone that might wanna pick up a fresh doll or waconda forever. What? Anything.
[00:31:38] Dr. Lisa: Anything, fresh dolls, fresh squad, all of them positively perfect. They are in, oh my gosh, I can't even tell you all of them, but we're in Walmart, we're in Target, we're in Macy's, we're in Burlington. We're in, I need my team here to rattle all of them. . Honestly, I can't. We're very blessed. We are very blessed that our dolls have been received so well.
[00:31:57] Where, And and we're moving. Into accessories and we now have coloring books that are also in the, in the market. We have, license, we're now so honored to be, again, working with Marvel and Disney and we also work with LL Cool J with his brand Rock the Bells. So we're just really having fun over here.
[00:32:15] Azhelle Wade: And do you have any big goals for the future that you can share with us?
[00:32:18] Dr. Lisa: First of all, we have the fresh dolls. We're gonna be coming out with new fresh dolls, new facial scope, new hair color, new hair textures. And there's gonna be a total of 50 of them, five zero.
[00:32:30] Kitchen up. That's just one. Then we're, we have been known for our fresh squad dolls, which are our male
[00:32:37] dolls. They are incredibly popular. We literally cannot keep them in stock. Well, we are relaunching them and we're calling the Fresh Squad Platinum Series. So these are all, these are debonair, I mean, they are, and full leather and full sue and jackets. They have, again, patent pending hairstyles.
[00:32:59] So we went all out on our fresh squad, and then we wanted to do something sweet and cute. So we're introducing the first of our knowledge of a line of fresh berry. These are adorable collectable dolls. They're about three and a half
[00:33:16] inches. They all have multicultural skin tones. Their hair is in like Bantu knots and head wraps and braids, and just all representing multiculturalism because again, I want a child to see themselves reflected everywhere, even in that little three inch collectibles.
[00:33:34] They're so cute. And then we're entering into the area of cuddles. So these are like plush. they're round and they're, Oh, they're so comfortable. They're cuddly. And, but what makes them unique is they too have multicultural skin tones. So you'll see skin tones of a wide variety in our cuddles and.
[00:33:52] Some of them have locks and some have braids, and some have Afro puffs and some have afros. So again, just so many things that are coming out, for the fresh family. We want to give them everything that they're asking us for, and they have been asking us for so many items, and now we're able to provide it.
[00:34:09] We're so, so, so excited
[00:34:11] the vision that I have for that little girl that I saw, and that is for her to see her beauty and her brothers reflected back to her in toys still remains, except now I want to broaden it. I mean, I now want her to see wherever she. I call it a sacred space, meaning wherever she looks, she sees herself reflected back to her.
[00:34:29] So that's in her, That's in her pajamas, that's in her comforter, her bedsheets, her shower curtain, her backpack, her cereal bowl. I mean, literally, I want everywhere for her to be able to see herself, her ethnicity, and the beauty of it everywhere she looks, that's the
[00:34:46] Azhelle Wade: Yes. Yes. Dr. Lisa. Okay. I wanna ask you the two closing questions. What is the best piece of advice that you received when you were starting out your toy journey?
[00:34:58] Dr. Lisa: The best advice I received, Is when you wanna, when you have to make a decision, make it quickly. by that I mean if you're gonna do something, do it. don't sit with it. What should I, I shouldn't, I should, I probably should. Well, maybe I shouldn't. I da da. Because then you just get stuck and then the mind starts playing with you.
[00:35:14] See, that's the thing, is you don't want your mind to start taking over if you know your why, that you're doing something. And for me, it was why I was doing is I wanted to make a difference in the lives of. That was my why. I didn't want my mind to start saying, Oh, but you can't. You don't know. Who do you know? How can you, So when you make a decision and it feels right in your heart, it feels right in your soul. Do it. That's probably the best.
[00:35:38] Azhelle Wade: And my last question for you today, what toy blew your mind as a kid?
[00:35:42] Dr. Lisa: That, that is such a hard one. Cause there was so many. Oh gosh. I loved, I love Light Bright. I love There was one. Yeah, I, there was one it was called Oh, Operation. I loved Operation, you know, where the little tweezers and you pull out the
[00:35:58] Azhelle Wade: yeah, yeah. It's a good.
[00:36:00] Dr. Lisa: Yep. I love that
[00:36:01] And then I would play racing cards with my cousins, my boy cousins. So I I liked playing with Hot Wheels too, so I have a wide variety. And then of course, as I grew older, I really fell in love with Cabbage Patch and I was a huge Cabbage Patch fan
[00:36:16] Azhelle Wade: too.
[00:36:16] Dr. Lisa: And I still have my cabbage patch.
[00:36:18] Azhelle Wade: Oh, that's so great. Thanks for sharing. We'll have to link all your favorite toys in the show notes.
[00:36:23] Dr. Lisa: Well, I will give you the exclusive yes, there are some things coming out.
[00:36:28] Thank you for having me.
[00:36:30] Azhelle Wade: Oh, Dr. Lisa, it was a pleasure talking to you. Like I'm so happy to connect with you again. I feel like it's been so long.
[00:36:37] Dr. Lisa: It has been like forever. This was truly, truly an honor. Thank you so much, Azhelle, for having me. I'm just thrilled to have been on your podcast today.
[00:36:46] Azhelle Wade: Yes. We'll talk soon. Take care.
[00:36:48] Dr. Lisa: Bye bye.
[00:36:49] Azhelle Wade: Well, there you have it, toy people. My interview with Dr. Lisa of World of vpi. I hope that this story today really inspired you. Throughout Dr. Lisa's career, she went against so many barriers that should have prevented her from becoming the amazing woman that she is today, but she broke through them. She just believed that she could do it, and she set out to prove anyone wrong that said any differently. It would mean the world to me. If you went to visit world ofpi.com, checked out and supported the Fresh Dolls, and also connect with Dr. Lisa over on LinkedIn. If you just search Dr. Lisa Williams, you'll find her.
[00:37:32] Before we wrap up today's episode, I'd like to feature a podcast listener who left a great review, MJ Spitalnik, my friend, thank you for this. I found a review on Apple Podcast. It says necessary. This podcast is a must listen to every single one trying to start their journey in toys, or even if you're already a toy inventor or entrepreneur. Each episode carries so much knowledge and the guests bring in so much insight. Insane. It was an honor for me being a guest on this show, not only once, but twice. Thank you MJ for that review, and your episode was amazing.
[00:38:09] If you're listening to this podcast and you haven't checked out mjs episode on dealing with mental health as a toy entrepreneur, make sure to head over to the toy coach.com/ 1 5 1 to check out that episode. As always, thank you so much for being with me here today. I know there are a ton of podcasts out there, so it truly means the world to me that you keep tuning into this one. Until next week, I'll see you later Toy people.
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