Episode #66: The Ripple Effect Of Racial Bias In The Toy Industry Part 2 with Jacqueline Vong
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Considering over 70% of toys are manufactured in China, we would be remiss to not acknowledge and discuss the increase in Asian hate crimes that are making headlines in the US and Canada. According to NYPD data reported in the Queens Chronicle in September, anti-Asian hate crimes have increased 1900% from 2019 to 2020.
For today’s episode, The Toy Coach engages in a hard and honest conversation with Jacqueline Vong a 20-year toy expert and founder of Playology where she works as a consultant in concept development, distribution, and franchise management. Jacqueline comes on the show today to share her personal experiences being a Can-Asian woman and walks alongside me as we uncover and unpack the differences between positive and offensive representation in media and toys.
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Instagram: @playologyintl and @kapooftoys
If you are interested in purchasing the book mentioned in today’s episode, click here to buy Eyes That Kiss in The Corners
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Azhelle 00:00
You are listening to Making It in The Toy Industry, Episode Number 66.
Intro/Outro + Jingle 00:06
Welcome to Making It in The Toy Industry, podcast for inventors and entrepreneurs like you. And now your host Azhelle Wade
Azhelle 00:16
Hey there toy people Azhelle Wade here and welcome back to another episode of the toy coach podcast, Making It in The Toy Industry. This is a weekly podcast brought to you by thetoycoach.com. Well, we're back. And we're having a much needed honest and eye opening conversation around race in the toy industry. I felt compelled to reach out to today's guests after seeing too many reports of Asian hate on the news, hearing too many stories from my friends of what they're fearing, and about the protests here in NYC. And since so many toy products are manufactured in China, I believe this is a conversation that we need to have right here on this podcast. So today I'd like to welcome to the show Jacqueline Vong, Toronto based specialist who has been working in consumer products for over two decades. In 2018. Jacqueline was named unlicensed Global's list of the Top 40 under 40 and has worked with companies like Spin Master, CORUS ENTERTAINMENT, Nelvana Enterprises and Mattel. Jacqueline has lived abroad in Asia, where she worked as a market leader in product development, licensing and retail development with China based King Bee Toys focused on the mainland China market on brands like Peppa Pig, the minions and transformers. Are you ready to dive into an honest conversation toy people? Let's listen in on the interview. Jacqueline, welcome to the show. I am so honored to have you here. Thank you so much for being here today.
Jacqueline 02:00
It is my complete pleasure. Thank you so much for the opportunity.
Azhelle 02:04
So I started this episode, I gave everyone an introduction to who you are, how great you are. But before we get started, I always love for my guests to just introduce themselves in their own words and share what they're doing today in the toy industry.
Jacqueline 02:18
Well, I'm Jacqueline Vong. I'm a Canadian mama foreigner, meaning I grew up in Canada, and I'm of Asian descent. I've worked for many big companies, which you've mentioned in the earlier segment. And then I went to Asia, I had the opportunity to work in China and bring in these major foreign brands and create retail development work on counterfeit enforcement, product development. And now I'm repatriated back in Canada, where I own my own consultancy, representing IPs with licensing and content development distribution opportunities. And I feel I bring a uniqueness and perspective from my east to now West knowledge and experience to my clients.
Azhelle 03:02
Tell me a little bit about your clients today. Do you work with big toy companies? small toy companies? medium sized? like what do you do?
Jacqueline 03:08
I really work with the small to medium sized companies. I have brands like the Wiggles which are preschool Australian brand we call them the Beatles from down under. The Elf On The Shelf and it's a holiday seasonal brand. I work in mainland Canada for them. I work with Headstart Toys, they're an Australian toy company. I work with Super Impulse Toys another amazing company all about the novelty category and various other companies.
Azhelle 03:35
I love Elf on the Shelf. Awesome. So what do you do for your clients? You said you do like retail development, business development, some distribution, but can you get a little bit more specific? I just want people to know in case they're thinking of how could I work with Jacqueline, I want you to tell them that.
Jacqueline 03:51
So as broad as some creators coming to me and creating content, where we content develop, create the animation, and then we sell the shows to Amazon, Netflix, Disney, we represent various countries. So I currently am working on a deal in China, in Latin America, in Europe with that creator, which is very exciting. I also do licensing programs from the license or perspective. So I'm an agent that I also work with companies who are looking for licenses in certain categories and find them the brands that they want to work with. And then furthermore, I work with companies who want to organize themselves corporately, and I create that franchise management strategy where they go to market with a 360 intention with marketing maybe opening Asia up for them that's a big one for me. I've been working with a couple of companies and really opening up China as the opportunity and then holistically Asia.
Azhelle 04:42
Wow, that's a lot. What's the name of your company? Again,
Jacqueline 04:45
It's Playology international
Azhelle 04:46
Playology International. It sounds like you're building up a pretty epic business there. Jacqueline you're doing a lot of things.
Jacqueline 04:54
I know it's hard when you pivot from working for you know, big company into being an entrepreneur, I've really had to, um, you know, cater to my strengths, but also be open to taking on new adventures. And I've been finding where I win and where my expertise are really, you know, bringing that Asian perspective into the Western companies, as well, as you know, my bread and butter licensing, and my business partner is all in content development. So we really, really try to find that hybrid together.
Azhelle 05:23
Thank you. Thank you for sharing all of that. Now, I have to get down to the heart of our conversation today. There's a reason that I brought you on the show today, I asked you if you'd be interested in coming on the show today. And it's because of everything that's been going on in the world. And today's episode is called the ripple effect of racial bias. Part Two, unfortunately, that we have to have this conversation again, because there's a lot of hate going on in the world right now toward the Asian community sparked by the Coronavirus, it seems seems to get sparked by that having happened. Everyone's just want someone to blame. And I really wanted to give you this platform to voice your experience of being an Asian woman, a Can-Asian woman I love that I'd never even thought about that little hybrid name. That's cute. Can-Asian woman and I want to hear about what it's been like for you in your daily life like dealing with this while you're working so close with both sides of the world? Like how do you handle it? And I'm so glad that you were just generous enough and fearless enough to take me up on this offer. The very first thing I would actually like to start with is this image you sent me very upsetting image. So the moment I invited Jacqueline and be on the show, she sent me this image back and it was this Asian character woman it's like a drawing of an Asian woman wearing a mask and the mask says stop Asian hate. But then all around her. They're like gray hands reaching in from the sides saying very hateful things toward an Asian woman. And honestly, I don't even have to repeat the things that are said because I don't even want there to be audio of me saying anything like that, because I've never. But anyway, everything being said in the image, you said that it had been said to you before, and you've just had to let it slide off your back. And I got chills reading that I was really mad for you reading that. And and it also really made me feel excited that I had the opportunity to give a platform and a voice to this for you. So I just I don't even know, I want to begin with just how do you deal with this? We were talking right before we started this conversation about how different it is for Asian women and black women, just from our experiences. And people I think tend to be a little bit more afraid of black women. So they would never say these things. How do you deal with the things that are said to you that are just uncouth that are just disgusting, that are just racially charged? How do you handle it and navigate through that experience?
Jacqueline 07:36
Well, first Azhelle I want to say thank you for having me and giving me this platform to discuss and explore my internal feelings and raise awareness for this important topic. I want to first start off by saying I have always struggled with navigating my own identity. Because I do understand the privilege I've had growing up in Canada, I've always tried to assimilate my upbringing, schooling career around the society that is identified around me, and that's predominantly Caucasian. I've never really embraced my Asian heritage and been proud as an Asian person until later in life. When I was growing up. I really struggled with that. So when I saw this image, it really struck a chord. Because all throughout my life, I've been answering questions such as, no, where are you really from? Canada, I would say, but they would really want to explore what nationality or where my parents were from and accurately they should be asking me really what nationality Are you or where did your parents come from? And that's always made me feel like a perpetual foreigner in my own country. My last name is Vong. And it rhymes with Gong and Ching Chong, and most of my life. I've had a song associated to my last name. I'm not going to sing it, but it always has the Ching Chong effect of it sometimes has Hong Kong, it sometimes has the gong, and I've always just held a smile to my face and rolled with the punches because I always thought they're laughing with me right? Not at me. I I constantly, always asked, you must be good at math, because agents stereotypically are more astute at math. Not sure where the science came from, but there's a lot of stereotyping there. You all look the same Asians in general, when people are getting mixed up with me or I get mixed up with people. I'm even guilty of saying oh as Asians we must look the same. So all throughout my life, I've kind of rolled with the punches. I've let it slide. I've wanted to assimilate because I'm invisible, but I have to say as the coronavirus pandemic spread in my own struggles to identify as a Canadian. I have never been more conscious that I was not Caucasian. I started I'm answering more questions about the Chinese in my experience in China, whether they actually ate animals like that, because the virus was originally linked to eating bats.
Azhelle 10:10
So people, since this has all happened are asking you to clarify things about Asian culture because of what's going on.
Jacqueline 10:17
They are. And in my ignorance, because I knew this was a virus originated from Asia, China specifically, I didn't blame the citizens of China nor the culture. And maybe I was naive to realize that other people when either and so this pent up, you know, microaggressions, and subtle habits really have virals into where we are now. And that's why I think it's important. And thank you, again, Azhelle for this platform, because I do want to highlight and keep talking about it. Because it hasn't been easy. I being Asian during this time.
Azhelle 10:57
Yeah, no, for sure. I feel like one of the reasons that it's hard is because there isn't enough awareness and representation. You know, this is a toy podcast, I do think that there is a relationship there as far as like what kids are growing up being comfortable with. And the fact that there isn't enough representation throughout their life, I think is what allows kids that are not Asian to feel disconnected from other Asians as human beings. So they you know, I feel like if we did a better job of creating like TV shows, and products that reflect these cultures that are different from your own level of compassion would develop. I feel like people got attackee about Coronavirus, looking for someone to blame. And okay, well blame the Chinese because they feel separate from it. So it feels like oh, it's somebody I can versus but we're all in this together. We're all affected by this virus, every race. So I just, you know, I'm so sorry to hear that. But we'll get we'll get into more of that as we go on. But continue. I'm sorry, I don't want to I don't want to cut you off. Continue. Please tell us about your experience.
Jacqueline 12:00
I think the only thing I want to say is with that image, I posted it on Instagram. And I ended with my last comment saying if we put a blindfold on everyone right now in the 21st century, and no one could see color without equalize the playing field? And would people be treated differently still? So that's my question, have we even really made progress considering what's going on right now,
Azhelle 12:25
People are always looking for a way to feel like they belong. But in that feeling like you belong, they separate from another group.
Jacqueline 12:33
But I think there's more of a new push for the new generation to really consider embracing diversity, having those important conversations, and knowing that race and gender biases are taught at a very young age. So eliminating those and starting really young to see to create color and diversity and shapes and sizes and embracing all that. So I think there's quite a big momentum right now to see that in place.
Azhelle 13:02
Good. No, this is good. Because now that we're going on this topic, I want to know in your career, I'm sure that you've tried to draw from what you know, like in the very beginning of your career, like we all do, we're just starting out and we're like, oh my god, I need to come up with like a strategy for this toy company or a new TV show idea or something I got to pull from what I know. And then for you, what you might know is your Asian culture. So I'm curious, have you ever run into hesitation about ideas that you might have presented that related to things you pulled from your own culture
Jacqueline 13:33
It's funny when I first started Playology, I had so much of this Eastern sensibility. And I also came back to Canada. And I noticed that, you know, food is such a common theme. So I thought to myself, I haven't seen much out there about Asian cuisine, specifically Dim Sum, which are little tapas. Asian tapas during enter hours. And I thought it would be fun to create an IP based on Dim Sum characters, I created the visuals, I've created the whole pitch deck. And this was a couple of years ago, I would say five years ago. And I presented it to small to medium sized companies. And I got a lot of pushback. Everybody said it was cute. It was a great idea. But it was really a niche play, and really not a big opportunity. And I was told that it actually wouldn't translate in a really big way and make an impact in mass markets. So what did I do? I stopped developing it and I gave up on that idea.
Azhelle 14:32
I've had the same experience. I was working for a company. I was pitching a Bento Box. It was a food play brand. So I was pitching a bento box. And they were like, no, this is too niche. And I was like, Yes, it is it because I feel like it isn't but yeah, I've had that same experience. But what do you do? Like do you believe in that? Like do you believe in it's too niche? What do you believe?
Jacqueline 14:52
With the recent events? I don't believe it's too niche. I think it's really important to keep going I feel bad that I gave up on it. So quickly after maybe three or four companies gave me that no. And I just thought maybe it's too much of an uphill battle, I have seen that there's a resurgence of, you know, Asian culture and pop culture and Asian gaming like Mahjong. So I do want to consider putting something together in the near future.
Azhelle 15:21
Have you seen the short film Bao?
Jacqueline 15:23
Absolutely, yeah. Love Bao. I mean, I'm obsessed with anything that will teach my kids about Asian heritage, Asian culture in a kid friendly, snackable way. So when I say snackable, maybe a short, or something that's really easy and animated, because some of the Asian history is a little complex with, you know, the dynasties and some of the battles and the symbolisms.
Azhelle 15:48
You've worked with mass market toy companies. And you know that when it gets to mass market, like anything, niche is like when we're trying to make money, like, let's just not go there. Right? So but what do you think it will take and I asked this, because if there's anyone listening that can help it get there, I want them to hear what we think it will take. So they can say, Oh, I can take a step toward that. Because I feel like Bao might be a step. The fact that they want an Academy Award is one more step to show people like this isn't niche. So I don't know, I'm curious, like, have you discovered? Like, does it take that they have to have a popular TV show so that you can sell in the product? Or does it take a year then an Academy Award winning film is out that's Asian? Like what do you think it takes?
Jacqueline 16:27
I think the first step is normalizing seeing Asian and, you know, African American content on a daily basis, whether it's content that we're seeing, whether it's on the shelves, and having the small steps to build. After that, you know, having the chance to have placement in a retailer that isn't, you know, put off to the side being placed in the main aisles not being a specialty niche play not right, as support organically on maybe the algorithms that generate content for you and having content that follows up content. So having like content, more content, so when you're watching Ryay, The Last Dragon, having Mulan, having Ni Hao Kilan if everybody remembers that having Bao. So just thinking about having Over the Moon, which is another amazing Netflix series, our netflix movie about the moon cake, and the Moon Festival, like one of my daughter's favorites, because we talk about these holidays and celebrate them. And it's not known in you know, common speaking in the Western world.
Azhelle 17:41
I never even thought about how the algorithm might not be supporting these things. That's an interesting thought and very sad. So tell me what is happening in the market right now as far as Asian Development like what's coming? What are you seeing change and evolve that makes you happy?
Jacqueline 17:57
I think I'm dating myself. But you know, I was growing up. I didn't see much. You know, Lucy Liu was the only Asian character and maybe Jackie Chan as the action hero. So what I'm seeing right now, in terms of just Asian culture and Asian personalities, I'm seeing that more crop up, including what I had just mentioned about Ryay the last dragon, Mulan, Over the moon Marvel's coming out with a new theatrical movie called Shang-Chi starring Sima Liu. And, and that's exciting.
Azhelle 18:31
I didn't know that. Oh,
Jacqueline 18:32
And Marvel has their first Asian superhero and movie all around that. And then we seen you know, Netflix series reality series like Bling Empire. We've seen Crazy Rich Asians, which was very amazing.
Azhelle 18:46
They're so good.
Jacqueline 18:48
Sitcoms like Fresh Off the Boat, Kim's convenience. So seeing more Asian faces seeing more animated faces, seeing more lead characters as Asians versus secondary background characters. I'm really excited about seeing Awkwafina, Ken Jeong, Daniel Dae Kim, and not just looking for Lucy Liu or Jackie Chan.
Azhelle 19:08
I Yeah, I agree. When I grew up, I remember it's Charlie's Angels like Lucy Liu, my fav. But I feel like it was because she was the only diverse one. I was like, I'm gonna resonate with you. Yeah, she was my favorite. I loved her. But yeah, you're right. There are so many more. Now. That's so fantastic. But here's the thing. When people listening might think like, you know what, I have no problem with Asian culture. I want to incorporate that into my doll line or incorporate it into my product. But the problem becomes how they do it. Right. So I thought it would be really valuable for you to just tell us what's offensive, because it's great when big companies small companies want to reflect Asian culture, but what is the wrong way to do it? Can you teach us that here?
Jacqueline 19:57
Well, I think I'll use an example from the past. I'm familiar with the Siamese cats from Lady and the Tramp? Yes, hey, probably check off a lot of Asian stereotypical features. First of all, hate saying this, the eyes, Asian eyes, they have a different shape. And maybe they're a little narrower. So of course, they were put on the cats are the characters. That accent that they have in the song that they sing was a little harder to digest in terms of a very Asian accent. And I'm not going to imitate it. But I don't know how to even describe it and the Asian accent, the gong sound is always an indication of a very stereotypical Asian feature that they use to really remind people, I think they also used it in the animated feature Mulan with Mushu, who was the dragon and his Gong sound.
Azhelle 20:55
So why I hope this isn't offensive. Why are these things done wrong? Like what's wrong about it? Because if somebody's saying like, oh, but you know, I love the slanted eyes that my Asian friend has. And that's why I'm putting it on this doll. Or is the problem that they put it on a cat? Like, what specifically doesn't sit well? like when you watch it? What parts of it make you feel uncomfortable?
Jacqueline 21:20
You know? That's a really good question. I find that maybe because it's so different. And we don't see it that much. It's so blatantly obvious that it's different. And maybe that's the problem. I haven't seen much of it in the marketplace, or growing up with it. So yes, I'm offended by the eyes. I'm offended by, you know, the take on our language, and how they people sound, I'm offended by the gong, I really am offended by the gong.
Azhelle 21:49
But explain it like, like, I want to know, kind of give an example for myself. This is something I'm still figuring out. So for my hair, I'm gonna talk about my hair, I have changed the color of my hair. And I get offended when people ask, Oh, is that your hair. And it took me a while to figure out why it hurts and why I get offended by it. And I dug through. And I do appreciate that you want to learn what my hair is and how it works. But for me, it's so personal, because the fact that I still technically hide my hair by putting fake hair mixed in with it, even though that fake hair is designed to look more like my natural hair. The fact that I have to do that to feel feminine, and to feel beautiful, is a result of colonization. And that makes me feel very shameful. And it makes me feel uncomfortable. So when people ask me like is that your real hair? It's like a whole thing. And I have to like force myself to not be upset with them. Because I know you're just trying to learn but for me, it's like, it's a lot to admit like, no, it's not my hair, and I'm wearing it more for you than for me. And so that's what I want to get into, like, can you dig their dig deep?
Jacqueline 23:02
Wow, you are really unpacking something because I cringe at any Asian dolls. I really emphasize this Asian I and maybe it really if I dug deep, maybe it comes from that self hate and the struggle to always want to be part of the Caucasian culture. So colonization, you mentioned that all of this, it's really a lot to unpack actually. Yeah, everything you mentioned about your hair, I would feel similar with the eyes, the accent, everything. It's really digging down into that self loathing, identifying with Asian culture.
Azhelle 23:45
So would it be safe to say then, if somebody wants to help normalize Asian culture and features in the toy industry in TV shows animation. The job is not just putting Asian characters or Asian culture, but it's putting them on the pedestal that let's I'm going to be blunt, the pedestal that white people are on. So say you have the slanted eyes. But that is the positive or the beauty of the character or it's like it's highlighted and decorated in a way that like, it is very clear that it is an appreciated thing by all of the let's say it's a TV show by all of the other characters in the TV show. Or Or let's say if the character has an accent. It's an accent that they can control because they are bilingual. And it's showing that you know, that Asian people are more than just this accent that they have the right to be bilingual and bicultural. And I don't know, maybe that's what it is.
Jacqueline 24:43
I think it's so important to have this conversation because thinking about the future generation and thinking specifically about my daughter and my son. I don't want them to think their eyes are any different from any of the other people out there and you're right. I'm really it starts with putting it up on the pedestal, I have been struggling to find Asian publications like publishing books for kids that really feature Asian characters. And I just came upon one, which was called, and I may not get the name, right, but eyes that kiss the side of your face. And it was just featuring as it highlighting their eyes. And, and I thought, Oh, my goodness, I need more of this in my household. Because it's true, my kids are a mix, I married a Mexican American, and they're half Chinese half Mexican, but predominantly, they look Chinese, they're going to grow up, you know, looking different, and maybe they will get treated differently. So we need to start figuring out how to normalize the Asianness. You know, and diversity into everything, so that we can start embracing in ourselves. Does that make sense?
Azhelle 25:52
No, that totally makes sense. I should say, yes, that totally makes sense. Not No, um, give me find that book when we get off of here and give me the link because I'd love to put it in the show notes. Because exactly, if it's called that we're not sure if the title yet but eyes that kiss the side of your face. That's exactly. It's putting it in on a pedestal. It's, it's showing love for the differences. So yes, and that's more than just making a doll in your line. That's Asian. That's way beyond that. That's going to the next level of like showing adoration and appreciation and focus. And, you know, for a specific culture. I love that.
Jacqueline 26:30
Yes. Called eyes that kiss in the corners.
Azhelle 26:33
Eyes that kiss in the corners. Okay, beautiful. Alright, so my next question, we kind of answered it a little bit. But I think we could dive deeper, there could be people wondering at this point, why does representation even matter. But clearly, we're stating that it matters because without it, kids grow up with a little bit of self loathing. And that's if they're the diverse child. And then if they're not the diverse child, they grew up feeling like they're separated from everybody else. And maybe they're not being empathetic. But now I'd love to talk about the effects of not having that representation. And I think those effects are showing up in what's happening right now in the world, the Asian hate. Let's talk about that. I know you have a lot of stats to share. Let's go What do you have to tell us?
Jacqueline 27:18
So analysis from the stock API, and API stands for Asian American Pacific Islanders, hate have found with a population of 22 million Asian Americans in the US, which is only 6% of the population, anti Asian hate crimes are at 1,900%. I'll say that again. 1,900%. And while there was Asian hate that was happening, this spike in cases have aligned themselves to when COVID cases were rising. And so this racism against Asian Americans was happening at a higher rate.
Azhelle 28:03
So I know somebody listening might think like, these are just numbers. How do we know this is true? Like this is just stuff you Google and like, we don't know if that's real, like, so if you're open to it. I'd like to hear some of your personal life experiences to show people that this is real.
Jacqueline 28:18
Well, as I mentioned, race is a constant topic in our household, I married an American. And we recently just gave my 83 year old Asian mom a personal alarm for her daily to our walks in the hopes that I could deter an attacker. She has felt harassed, never up until this point, and in the last three weeks, she has felt harassed twice, and that is heart breaking. I also will mention from my personal life, my kids, I have two of them. And they've been out of school for the last two weeks because in my son's class, there was a COVID positive case. And so in Canada, your son's class gets shut down because of the case and any sibling gets pulled out. So my four year old daughter is out. Now my anxiety around her going back to school is pretty high because kids around her age already know what's happening in the world, not in a detail scale, but they understand what Coronavirus is, and I am worried that she will be treated differently and maybe bullied maybe made fun of and that's a real worry.
Azhelle 29:26
But are you seeing that have in business in your world like you work in children's products you work in Toy products, Chinese toy products you work with and North American, like what effects are you seeing from what's going on in the world right now?
Jacqueline 29:39
There's a duality right? I think there's a lot of people reaching out to just check in on me, which is amazing. I also see that have always been you know, microaggressions I would say you know about jokes about me coughing in public, or sneezing and or traveling and being alienated Because I do travel to China, I do travel around the world. And I was traveling in 2020, in January, February and even March right before our world shut down. And being Asian and stigmatized in a way that I wasn't really prepared for, if that makes sense. As mentioned, I really thought of myself as Canadian for us because I was born and identify as a Canadian, so I never thought I was any different from anybody else. And I never worried about my personal safety. I never worried about things that I would have to do to protect my family, or the anxieties that I wake up with at night around what's happening right now.
Azhelle 30:41
Oh, my God, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I feel I do feel like we stated the fact that there is a need for more representation. But then we also kind of outlined how that representation could show up in a way that is supportive, and not offensive. And I think that's really, really important. But I also know that you, I mean, you work so much with China, and you see a lot of changes going on there right now, like in in the marketplace for products. And just tell me a little bit about that. I know, I know, you talked a little bit about how they're protecting their IPS more like, is that happening in response to anything? Or why is it happening right now?
Jacqueline 31:21
I think really, there's many sides for China, because it's a communist government, they are retaliating, they are reactive, and in my time in China, and that was about five years ago, brands like Barbie and Peppa Pig would be assigned a higher perceived value and a higher value because of the foreign nature of the brand. Then local homegrown brands, domestic brands that were there always had a lesser value. And with command, one of the cheaper maybe street prices versus high end retailer taking it on, we are definitely seeing China being more protective about growing their homegrown business and IP. And really, I guess, flexing their muscles and what they're good at. And one of the things that they want to show the world that they're good at is really technology, some of the new tech trends that are coming out of China, you know, with live streaming and their app Kuaishou that's a really important app from that app. We've seen Amazon live take off, we've seen some Tick Tock and Walmart partnerships doing the live streaming of e-commerce. And that's pretty interesting, in how that's being translated into the North American market. I do want to say that Asian brands in the Western world, when you think about them, are commonly viewed as chip cheaper trinkets, yeah. Now the irony is the manufacturer in China of these trinkets are the same or maybe the same as the luxury goods that we're getting with these logos and brands. And I just think that it's really, really interesting to see tha.
Azhelle 32:58
Do you think that everything that happened in the last four years with that President triggered this desire for the Chinese government to say we want to stand on our own two feet and create brands and products that people respect and resonate with us with China? Was it triggered by that or by what's going on? Or was this just something coming down the pipeline for a while?
Jacqueline 33:16
I think there was a movement to really be China first, but I think with the former president, and Coronavirus, China has really wanted to start relying on its own versus exporting out Western brands and bringing in foreign brands. They really wanted to grow those homegrown companies and IPS. So Ali Baba, Tmall, all of that, really pushing that.
Azhelle 33:44
Okay, gotcha. Well, thank you, Jacqueline, I think this was very great I want to close up with. And you might have to think on this for a little bit. In part one of the ripple effect of racial bias. In the toy industry, I gave a little bit of advice on what someone can do, if they're in a situation where they're experiencing racism being done to themselves or to their colleagues. Or if they're just experiencing somebody responding to a product idea in a way that's like they're stereotyping it, and they're not giving it the space that it needs or deserves. So, as an Can-Asian woman, if you have any advice for somebody that now is at work and might be hearing things either said to their Asian coworkers, or they're hearing people say things to them that are making them uncomfortable about other Asian coworkers, what advice would you give them?
Jacqueline 34:38
It's a hard one because I think there's a lot of seriousness in this but at the same time, we need to not lose the labadie and the humor around some some things because we do need a chance to sometimes laugh at ourselves and give each other grace and cancellation culture. I think it's pretty serious. So I don't think necessarily we cancel people, I do think it's important to share experiences and start really supporting people who are feeling like they're victimized. I think it's aspiring towards an open dialogue and embracing more diversity within culture, pop culture, and then rolling that out to real content and on the shelves. And at the end of the day to remember that we are all humans, we are all in this together. And we're not a pandemic.
Azhelle 35:36
Thank you so much, Jacqueline, I really appreciate your time. We're definitely going to have you back on to talk about something, not this. But I I really appreciate you using your voice to stand up for what you believe in. And if you want to reach out or just connect with Jacqueline on LinkedIn, I will give her LinkedIn link in the show notes. Thank you so much for being here. Is there anything you want to share? Before we go anything that's going on with you that you want to share that's coming up in your business or life
Jacqueline 36:06
I'm really excited about representing some clients on their social media handles. So trying to get those follows at snacks, this law and credit kids and my own homegrown toy brand at Kapoof Toys, K A P O O F T O Y S, that would be really amazing. If you can spare a follow.
Azhelle 36:26
Oh, I will put the links in the show notes. Thanks for sharing. Jacqueline, have a great rest of your day. I appreciate you being here.
Jacqueline 36:32
Thank you, thank you for the opportunity.
Azhelle 36:35
Well, toy people, there is not much more I need to say after that interview, I hope that your minds were open and you took the stories into your heart. And if you are in a position where you can affect change, I really hope this episode inspired you to do just that. And if you feel you're not in a position to truly affect change, I hope that this episode still opens your mind and your heart to what a lot of our counterparts in the toy industry are going through right now. So that you can be a bit more compassionate, or you can just check in and make sure they're doing okay with the unfortunate hate that is spreading currently. Now, in this episode, Jacqueline and I stated, a really interesting fact you know that there's a need for more representation of the Asian community. And we really outlined how that representation can show up in a way that supportive and not offensive. And it's really important to know that that's going to be different person to person. So our job really is to just listen and learn. And as people in the toy industry as makers and creators. It's our job whenever we can to be inclusive, and make sure that we're creating products that are going to in turn inspire good behavior in people in kids as they grow up and become adults. As always, thank you so much for showing up with me and being here today. I know there are a ton of podcasts out there. So it means the world to me that you tune into this one. Until next week. I'll see you later toy people.
Intro/Outro + Jingle 38:27
Thanks for listening to Making It in The Toy Industry podcast with Azhelle Wade, head over to thetoycoach.com for more information, tips and advice
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