#296: ESPN Virtual Reality Experience Nominated For A Major Toy Award with Steve Rad
What if kids could learn about sports, INSIDE SportsCenter? Well 27 licensing deals, 7 TOTY nominations, and 1 incredible host all led to this incredible feat of edutainment.
For 2025, Abacus Brands teamed up with ESPN and a roster of elite athletes to create the ESPN Virtual Reality Headset. This fully immersive toy is nominated for Educational Toy of the Year and delivers sports history, rules, trivia, and facts in a way kids have never experienced before.
In this episode of Making It in the Toy Industry, I sat down with Steve Rad, CEO of Abacus Brands, to unpack the creative, technical, and licensing marathon behind this ambitious VR learning tool and how his team managed to turn a sports encyclopedia into an unforgettable, fully immersive experience for kids.
Steve reveals what it was like working with Disney and ESPN, and how they managed to feature icons like Shohei Ohtani, Kobe, and Ronaldo all while staying true to their educational mission.
This toy teaches kids the why behind the rules of sports, helps kids explore games they’ve never played, and lets them learn inside SportsCenter alongside one of ESPN’s top anchors: Arda Öcal. This is edutainment to the highest level.
The ESPN Virtual reality headset is nominated for Educational Toy of The Year and you can (and should) vote here.
Featured in this episode:
The shocking cost of licensing deals with some of the biggest names in sports
Why Jordan was the one athlete they couldn’t lock in
What happens when licensing constraints actually push creativity
And how an early prototype made Steve stop in his tracks and send an all-team email
Vote for ESPN Virtual Reality Headset in the Educational Toy of the Year category. Voting is open to Toy Association members AND members of the media. Cast your vote for Virtual Reality ESPN in the Educational Toy of the Year category!
Voting is open to Toy Association members AND members of the media. So if you're in the media and you aren’t registered to vote, contact the toy association at info@toyassociation.org for details.
Listen For These Important Moments
[00:06:02] – Steve explains how the ESPN VR Headset turns every page of a 148-page book into a fully immersive sports learning experience from standing inside SportsCenter to skydiving out of planes.
[00:16:31] – It took 27 separate licensing deals to make this toy happen. Steve shares what it took to get athletes like Kobe, Ohtani, and Messi inside the experience (and why Jordan didn’t make the cut).
[00:23:44] – Want to pitch a brand like ESPN? Steve walks through why they said yes to a toy concept, and how Abacus framed it to feel more like a cultural experience than a product pitch.
[00:27:10] – If you’re hitting walls with licensing, this segment shows how constraints can lead to more creative storytelling including how Abacus pivoted when big names were too expensive to use.
[00:35:57] – You’ll hear about the moment Steve saw the first VR prototype and knew they had something special. Plus, how that one moment raised the creative bar for the entire project.
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This episode is brought to you by www.thetoycoach.com
Are you a 2026 TOTY finalist?Now’s your chance to turn that nomination into a win! Lock in your exclusive promo spot on the podcast, YouTube channel, and more! (only one finalist per category allowed)
Grab your ESPN Virtual Reality Headset by Abacus Brands and explore 148 pages of immersive, educational fun all in VR. 🛒 Available now online!
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Steve Rad: You don't even want to know what we did to get, you know, Messi, Messi and Ronaldo facing off there. What? Am I going to like be in VR with Messi and Ronaldo? You know what? This could be dangerous, though. I can see older version of me being like, I met Messi one- one year. Hussein- Hussein Bolt, I mean, is Hussein Bolt in here? What? Jordan was the one that we couldn't get done. Oh. Does it like the Jordan, and people- I had people coming up to me afterwards in all the different, that were like, "Hey, dude, buddy, that's the furthest we've seen anyone go down the rabbit hole trying to get Jordan. Like, you should be proud of how far you got." I'm like, "What?" I'm like, "Is that complicated to get Jordan to say yes to things?" I mean, I'm like, "I don't even think Jordan himself ever even heard this project even happening." You know? I have to also say, on your website, you have one of the best uses of like- I don't even know what it's called- like the um- like that keyframe when you scroll down the slide and it zooms in to the VR goggles. It's a- it's a parallax. Parallax. That is the best use of a parallax I've ever seen. I was like, "Oh, thank you." What else was it- Gordon Ramsay, you know, was like, "I don't look at anything, you know, under a million dollars," and we were like, it was our first year as a brand. We're like, "Bro," I have played a scary VR that when I- when I went it was the- the same exhibit I mentioned earlier. I went up to the station and I'm like, "Okay, I want to do this one," and she said, "Do you have a heart condition?"
Azhelle Wade: You are listening to Making It in the Toy Industry, Episode number 296. Welcome to Making It in the Toy Industry, a podcast for inventors and entrepreneurs like you. And now, your host, Azhelle Wade. Hey there, toy people. Azhelle Wade here, and welcome to another episode of Making It in the Toy Industry. This is a weekly podcast, and today's episode is sponsored by Abacus Brands. Now, recently on the podcast, we've been talking a lot about the TOTY Awards, and I'm excited today to have another TOTY nominated toy on the podcast. This time, for the educational toy category.
The TOTY-nominated product we're going to be talking about today is ESPN Virtual Reality Headset by Abacus Brands. It's a $59.99 VR gift set, and today on the podcast to chat about it is none other than Steve. Welcome to the show, Steve.
Steve Rad: Hi, thanks for having me.
Azhelle Wade: I've got to apologize to you and anyone listening. For some reason, I was calling you Steve Rand all last trade show, and everybody was like, "Are you talking to Rand?" And I was like, "No, you're wrong." I don't know where that came from, so public apology.
Steve Rad: It's very common for people just to be, you know, not accepting of how awesome my last name is, right? It's just they hear Steve Rad and they're like, "Surely there's no one even walking around here with the last name Rad," you know, so it's just let's just go to the closest other whatever sounding thing.
Azhelle Wade: Yeah, seriously. I made it up. I don't know why. Okay, to start this interview, I want to ask you to finish the sentence for me: The thing that surprised me most about the toy industry was-
Steve Rad: Hmm, interesting. You know, I think the thing that surprised me most about the toy industry would be the camaraderie of the folks in- in the space. Even even competitors- and we'll get into some of these if we- if we cover this whole category- but there's competitors in- in the educational- educational STEM toy space that I compete in that are cheering for me and I'm cheering for them. And there's- there's a very, you know, sense- there's just a sense of community that I'm shocked by even when we're all going after the same market share, and I think it's just always been very refreshing to know that, you know, the other folks that are doing the same kind of stuff, we're all kind of looking at each other like, "Oh, good idea, dude," and there's like a high five moment or a moment of respect that's always paid amongst others in that- I don't know if all the other- I don't know if plushes like that, and I don't know if uh electronics is like that, but I know that in the educational toy space, maybe because we're all trying to, you know, kind of change the way kids learn and how we're, you know, learning. I don't know if we have that bond, but I was very shocked to just kind of learn that in my space.
Azhelle Wade: Oh, that's really, huh, that's really nice to hear. Sometimes I feel that. Sometimes. No, that's really nice to hear. Um, okay, 20-second finalist pitch: Why ESPN VR for a standout in the educational toy category against 3Doodler, Magna-Tiles, robotic pet? Why? Why ESPN Virtual Reality?
Steve Rad: My 20-second pitch would be that we poured our heart and souls into this one. It was a huge undertaking. Uh, I'll get into later about how we got everyone together, but to go and talk to the- the agents from- from, you know, Kobe, Shohei Ohtani, Tom Brady, to get all these people to say yes to allowing their rights, images, biographies, strategies, everything in there on top of the ESPN layer, on top of the DK Penguin Random House layer. It was just a lot of work that we were committed to pulling off, and I'm happy that it came together, and I'm happy that it's just a phenomenal product. And uh, as far as our obsession with the end user and the way they digest and and play with it, it checked every box, and we're just very proud that it happened. So,
Azhelle Wade: So now, let's- let's talk about the- the play pattern because I haven't gotten mine yet, but I want to know what to do when I get my hands on it. So, what is the play pattern? I get the box, I open it up, what's in the box?
Steve Rad: Yep. So, so when you open the box, you basically get a 148-page book, right? So, it's a huge book, and it's basically like almost like a sports encyclopedia. It's got every single sport in there from weightlifting, you know, cricket, all the way, all the- of course, the- the majors: baseball, basketball, football, hockey, soccer, everything you can imagine. And and look, the book is supposed to stand alone by itself. Like, it can be just a book that you just learn, you know, it's a- it's a huge sports almanac that you can flip through and just learn about every sport. But then, uh, it comes with a VR VR viewer goggle, and you download the app and you put that uh your phone inside that goggle, and then any page that you look at- you put that thing on your head, and let's say I just flipped over to, you know, uh this page about whatever darts, okay? Yeah. And I, and the minute I look at that page, the app will recognize that I'm- that I'm looking at that page, and it'll teleport me into that exact sport, and it'll teach me about the history of it. Uh, you- you go- you basically teleport inside Sportscenter. So, you're in ESPN Sportscenter. We had the privilege of having Adnan Virk, who's one of the greatest correspondents and anchors I've ever seen at ESPN, uh host this thing for us. And um, he's inside, you know, you're inside Sportscenter, you're basically standing with him. And he's like, "Okay, so, here's why table tennis is, you know, revolutionary, and it was invented here and there." But he, like, he had all this like insight. Like, he's like, "You know, there's like the back- you know, table tennis, like the back of the paddle, like the- the reason why it's red and black is like the red has a different speed that it hits than the black." I'm like, "What?"
Azhelle Wade: Oh, interesting. I didn't know that.
Steve Rad: You could you flipped it all of a sudden to do a different trick or speed. That's wild. Anyway, so that's just a little teaser example of all the things that he brought to the table and the research he did for every sport and the way he delivered and is educating kids. But basically, every page in the book teleports you into a different different sporting experience, whether you're on a whether you're skating the ice, whether you're watching, you know, uh a football game, an NBA sequence, whether you're, you know, just inside a sports- inside a baseball, you know, uh stadium, we just take you all over the world and show you sports in in virtual reality, and it's- it's led by just amazing lessons.
Azhelle Wade: The way you were talking about the host, it sounded like some of it was unscripted. Is that the case?
Steve Rad: Um, you know, he went and did his a a diligent amount of research and came back and he presented things to us, and we- we as a team then we look- we looked at the book, we looked at what we were going to achieve in the virtual reality and the actual, you know, tech aspect of it, and once we married those two things together, we were able to just greenlight his ideas and his script. And he's like, "Cool, awesome." And he came out, he presented them, and then we take that back to the, you know, into the tech and make it come alive and do all these cool things. So, it just makes- it makes you feel like you're inside an episode of Sportscenter. You're in it. You're inside full 360, looking around, and there's a lot going on, and it's just such a fun way to learn. As a dad, I have an 8-year-old and a 5-year-old when they say like, "Hey, dad, what's- what's the blue line all about?" Or, "What's offsides?" You're like, "Glad you never asked."
Azhelle Wade: Oh my god. I took my husband a long time to teach me offsides. Like, I was like, "Why do they keep saying that? What does that mean?"
Steve Rad: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, where's onsides?
Azhelle Wade: Years ago, I stumbled across an AR VR um uh museum exhibition in Canada, years ago. And there was one experience that this reminds me of, and it was like you put on these goggles, and there was just an illustrator who illustrated a story, but it was almost like the illustrator was drawing all around you. So, you would like watch the story unfold and move with it and watch it. And and I want a- I want to know, is that what's happening in here?
Steve Rad: 100%. Okay. So, once you go into Sportscenter, once you're in there, as- as they're telling you a story, for example, the history of baseball and where it started, and then it moves over here, and he- you know, he did a great job just directing your attention over to the next thing. And as you look around the room, you're just kind of just immersed. It's just, you know, it's the way people want to learn. It's the way, especially kids with the attention spans where they are today, we're competing against, you know, what- don't just tell me. I want- I don't want to I want to feel it. Like, let me get me emotionally involved. I want to see it, I want to feel it, I want to be in it. And uh, it's just it's just makes for, you know, for whatever that content is at that moment to be digested in such a visceral way, like it just hits, right? And it sticks with you because you were there. It's now like a memory. Like, I went there and learned it, you know? Your your brain processes and holds it as if it was a memory that you had versus just something someone telling you something.
Azhelle Wade: Do you- so I want to hear from the 8-year-old. Did he tell you something that that or it's a- it's a boy, yeah? Did you say son?
Steve Rad: My 8-year-old is a boy.
Azhelle Wade: Okay. But so did your 8-year-old son tell you something about his experience with this headset that differed from learning in school or learning by someone telling him that- that you could just kind of articulate and share with us?
Steve Rad: Yeah, you know, like I think I think when- when I started the company when I had kids, and what what I wanted to do was create items and create products that were perennial, right? There's always going to be a dinosaur audience. There's always going to be a music audience, right? So, we take on things that are- that are not trends. We take on teaching kids about art or history or or animals or oceans or whatever. In this case, we wanted to make a sports item. So, how do you make the world's greatest sports item? How do I teleport, transport this person so they- they can transcend into this world of sports and learn it in a way that's going to really resonate and stick with them? So, that's- that's kind of the the charm of everything we take on is it's very real, and it's- it's always going to be an honesty that has to learn it or teach it at some point. It's up to the parents or the educators to say when this lesson needs to come down the pipeline for that kid. But yeah, I mean, ultimately, we- we were like, "We need to teach kids about sports." So, what's- what's the best way to teach them without, you know, having to go, and look, a lot of kids don't have access to certain sports, right? Like, I live in L.A., you know, we don't- we can't just go ski as easily as somebody, you know, they can in Vancouver, or or, you know, there's a lot of things that we just don't ever see around us, right? So, um to be able to to have kids at a global scale just kind of reaching sports that they don't even have access to or know how to go play or get to is actually really cool as well. So, um it's very exciting product.
Azhelle Wade: So, you have become known for these VR goggles and headsets. What- how much has it evolved or changed in the tech of it since your first sku?
Steve Rad: The the technology is still the same. It's rudimentarily, you know, the same kind of, you know, play pattern. For us, what's keeps- what keeps changing is the ability to interact within it, and at what level the quality keeps upscaling.
Azhelle Wade: Yeah, tell me about that. Yeah.
Steve Rad: Yeah. As the quality of the phones get better- because we're using mobile, you know, devices- uh as the speed of the phones and devices get better, as the the poly count we call it- the amount of, you know, pixels or the way we can push that that quality level up gets better. It just becomes- it just makes for better experiences. We're noticing people going in and saying, "Wow, this just was a very cool, dynamic experience." And learning about, you know, going underwater into oceans or our shark-kit for example, where you're underwater and you're like in the cage and great whites are swimming up to you. It just feels like you're actually in the cage, right? So, you know, um we're going to we're going to make a a music item soon next year where you're like traveling through, you know, music, like- like the wind- the wind instruments and seeing the way the- the way we did the human body kit where you can go inside the lungs and the respiratory system and sit in the heart and watch oxygen exchange, you know.
Azhelle Wade: I didn't- I didn't play with that one. I wish I had. Oh, I haven't. Yeah.
Steve Rad: Um so, we'll do music for example and, yeah,
Azhelle Wade: You were saying the way that you interact with it changes. What is there anything in how you interact with this kit that's different from the previous ones?
Steve Rad: Um not in ESPN particularly. We were doing stuff we're getting more and more down the rabbit hole of um of kind of like "Choose Your Own Adventure"-style stuff, like a haunted kind of item coming out with a really cool license where you're going to actually make choices and there's a button we're adding where you can actually trigger things and shoot and defend and move and in a new kind of way. But yeah, that's what the new technology is allowing us to be able to do.
Azhelle Wade: Okay, I have- I want- I have a wonderment. Have you tested the ESPN kit with somebody that plays these sports and the immersive feeling of like being on the field during a football play, how do they relate that to actually playing the game?
Steve Rad: I- I haven't- uh, look, I mean, like, first of all, ESPN isn't just, you know, like any license for us. ESPN to us is like- is like America, right? Like, there's there's it's- it's like, you know, it's like next to like a bald eagle, it's the most American thing you can- any bar you've ever walked into, any restaurant is- there's always ESPN on. So, for us, it was like, you know, we're not competing against sports. We're not trying to- we're not trying to say, "Hey, sit down and watch this instead of going to the sport or or playing the sport," by any stretch. It's more or less just an entertaining way of learning and experiencing the variety of sporting rules or the goats that have ever done it. Um, and just a little bit of backstory on like, why do I why should I care about this sport? As someone that doesn't know what cricket is, for example, this is why it matters. This is why it matters to that culture and this is why that community loves it so much. And it's just kind of embracing the reasons why- What's the difference between rugby and American football? How did the name- why- why do we call it soccer and everybody else calls it football? All those things are kind of addressed in a a fun way. Like I said, thanks to Adnan Virk, the way he delivered for kids and the way he just made- his passion the way it shines through is just it just made it a very compelling item.
Azhelle Wade: What I'm imagining is like when I was a kid, this would have been a great thing to- to like try sports before actually having to sign up for them. So, you know, that's why I'm wondering. I'm like, does this feel as real as if I signed up for the soccer team?
Steve Rad: No, no, no, no, no. You-
Azhelle Wade: No.
Steve Rad: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, this is- this is a more or less a- um a- a fun backstory as to why how crazy it used to be and how it's evolved, and what it's become today versus what it used to be. And again, it's sports education.
Azhelle Wade: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Steve Rad: Like- yeah, yeah, but, there are, but that said, there are like some skydiving, you know, ones in- in this kit. So, on the skydiving page, we throw you out of a plane.
Azhelle Wade: Oh.
Steve Rad: On- on the snowboarding one, we throw you out of a helicopter to snowboard down a down a mountain. So, there are some that are just like blazing, you know, like down these things.
Azhelle Wade: Yeah, yeah.
Steve Rad: Yeah. There is like the- the cricket, whatever, uh squirrel suit off of a cliff dive. So, there's some pretty intense moments in it, so don't get me wrong. It's not like all like-
Azhelle Wade: Yeah, it's not all just history.
Steve Rad: We- we- we stretch a little bit, but yeah, it's not- yeah, it's not going to replace actually playing the sport.
Azhelle Wade: Can I ask- and you don't have to answer this- but I'm thinking about the very first thing you said, and you said the amount of agreements that you had to get through. Can you tell me how many what is it- licensing agreements were involved in making this kit?
Steve Rad: Yep. Um there was about 27 different agreements that we finally end up signing.
Azhelle Wade: Wow.
Steve Rad: Ah, well, we started when we started the kit, um, you know, we had like Jordan and Messi on the front of the box, and that was going to be, but that was going to be like an extra half a million dollars.
Azhelle Wade: Oh.
Steve Rad: But like, to put to put people on covers, I guess is a whole different rule than inside of a book, right? So, it's like a whole other layer. So, I mean, so now there's a generic athlete on the cover,
Azhelle Wade: But you had to-
Steve Rad: generic models that that we shot on the cover. But then, you know, like the rights that we have to put Tom Brady, for example, inside is a whole differ- is different than a cover, right? We got like, you know, we got Kobe, you know, inside, that was a whole different, you know, uh set of, you know, rules. Shohei Ohtani, the number one baseball player in the world, a whole other set of rules. I mean, you don't even want to know what we did to get, you know, Messi, Messi and Ronaldo facing off there.
Azhelle Wade: Am I going to like be in VR with Messi and Ronaldo?
Steve Rad: Uh, you're not going to have to download the copies.
Azhelle Wade: Can I choose?
Steve Rad: You know what? This could be dangerous, though. I can see older version of me being like, "I met Messi one- one year."
Azhelle Wade: Yeah, yeah.
Steve Rad: Your kids are going to be like, "Oh, mom, I was a toy." You ever met Messi? Embarrassing, that's so- That's crazy, though, to get them on the cover was going to be so much. I feel like we have to rattle off every name you have in this game to get the money's worth, right? Yeah, yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, some- saying- Hussein Bolt, I mean, is Hussein Bolt in here? What? Jordan was the one that we couldn't get done. Oh. Does it like the Jordan, and people- I had people coming up to me afterwards, in all the different, that were like, "Hey, dude, buddy, that's the furthest we've seen anyone go down the rabbit hole trying to get Jordan. Like, you should be proud of how far you got." I'm like, "What?" I'm like, "Is that complicated to get Jordan to say yes to things?" I mean, I'm like, "I don't even think Jordan himself ever even heard this project even happening." You know, there's like 19,000 layers of people that like protect Jordan's name and brand, that try to get paid on Jordan before it ever even reaches Jordan. I don't even think he hears of it. I'm like, "I wish I could just go run into Jordan and be like, 'Bro, am I allowed to say your name? Like I feel like I owe you money from just saying your name.'" That's wild, man. That's crazy.
I have to also say, on your website, you have one of the best uses of like- I don't even know what it's called- like the um- like that keyframe when you scroll down the slide and it zooms in to the VR goggles. It's a- it's a parallax. Parallax. That is the best use of a parallax I've ever seen. I was like, "Oh, thank you." What else was it made for? Is really how I felt. I was like,
Azhelle Wade: Genius. Yeah.
Steve Rad: Yeah, that that's so cool. Cuz you know, Apple does it best when they get get the computer to like open up and then, you know, pull in when you you scroll. Explosion effect of like the- the items. So, yeah.
Azhelle Wade: Yeah, for us to pull it off like that. That thank you, cuz that's that's the most underrated thing that we've ever spent a fortune on.
Steve Rad: Called it out here. Well,
Azhelle Wade: We'll add it to the B-roll, editor, add it to the B-roll.
Steve Rad: I appreciate it.
Azhelle Wade: Oh, that is that is awesome. So, can I record the screen when I try it on, cuz I would love to do a video of like reaction to actually watching? Yeah.
Steve Rad: 100%. Okay. You can you can go into your thing, hit your screen record button. I do it all the time. Pop it back in. Perfect. And then just have fun with it. Yeah, it's so fun.
Azhelle Wade: So, what has been the early feedback? We want this to be a TOTY winner. What have the retailers been saying?
Steve Rad: Um, you know, it just started shipping like a few weeks ago, and it's- it's in it's in a few retailers. It's in Costco right now on a pallet, so that's probably the best deal in town, but that those are almost already gone. And then and then it moves into all of our other all of our specialty reps that that bought it. Um, so, and and those folks on the specialty level will have it year-round and it's going to be an item that, you know, Costco, they'll also sells out next week, and and everybody else has it for the rest of the year cuz we didn't print any more. It's a very limited supply. Um, but look, for the early feedback is that uh the people, I mean, that we've gifted it to and shared it with and, you know, the the reviews we're already seeing on Amazon and on our website are just tremendous. I think, um again, people just love the fact that it's a a trusted brand and a name and the fact that we partnered with DK, which is Penguin Random House and ESPN and these athletes and brands and bring it all to life is just truly a a crazy product. I remember saying to myself, we're going to make a toy that teaches kids sports, and then going and getting all these I didn't think it was going to be all these, you know, all these layers, right? So, um but it's here, it's- it's amazing. I'm proud- This is our seventh consecutive, you know, uh TOTY nomination.
Azhelle Wade: So, not seventh consecutive?
Steve Rad: Seventh consecutive STEM educational toy nomination, with one win in 2022. We won for the uh for the um Bill Nye the Science Guy.
Azhelle Wade: Oh, I remember that year, yeah, yeah.
Steve Rad: And uh that was right out of COVID. I think folks really appreciated that we had a really cool educational entertainment product at that time when- when you couldn't leave the house. So, I think that's where that band up. But, you know, we lost last four in a row, and I was always fine at that, but I don't know if I'm going to be okay losing this one.
Azhelle Wade: No, no, no. Yeah, and you-
Steve Rad: I love the other ones in my category. I- I buy and play with everything else in my category this year, which makes me scared, cuz I'm like, I've bought all these, you know?
Azhelle Wade: I mean, you winning this TOTY, I mean, is essentially like Messi winning a TOTY, so I feel like-
Steve Rad: It's like America winning a TOTY.
Azhelle Wade: It's America winning a TOTY. So, I feel like people- if you're, if you really love your country, you know,
Steve Rad: What more do you want from me?
Azhelle Wade: Right.
Steve Rad: What more do you want from me?
Azhelle Wade: That is- This feels like one of those ideas that I would like pitch to my boss and he would say, "Azhelle, we are not going through all those deals. Cute. Try again."
Steve Rad: I know. And and look, our our rep at um ESPN, Anuj, uh he made a joke about it on LinkedIn. He was like, "There was a lot of moments where this was on life support." I'm like, "It was?" I'm like, "I thought we were good the whole way." But he was like, "There was a lot of times where this thing almost fell, you know, fell apart and was on life support. We pulled it out, and thank god it's- it's out. It's at Costco, it's doing well, everyone's happy, everyone loves it, and uh it's- you know, we- we- I don't want to say we deserve to win anything for it, but we we- I want everyone that was involved on my team uh to know that we worked our butts off for it, and we really put our best foot forward, and we we made a consumer product that really, truly shines and stands out. And the quality is in the work when you when you pick one up and touch it or play with it, uh you can- we can really attest to it. So, um for those reasons, it would be- it would be an honor. It would be just a fun moment to all celebrate that win.
Azhelle Wade: We are transitioning right where I want to go and to the human angle of toy design product development. Why did you pick ESPN? Where did that idea come from?
Steve Rad: I mean, who's- who's a better partner for a toy item? You know, we work- At one point, we were going to go make it league-based and be like, "Okay, let's go make an NBA one," or just, but then it's just then it's just a basketball toy. Or any any other, you know, toy, you know, specific, you know, whatever, um brand or toy specific, you know, you can go make like a Nike thing, but again, you know, we needed some otherwise it would just be a generic sport. So, we thought who better than a sports authority, the ESPN, and with, like I said, with Adnan Virk's support when he came on and his voice, and we needed some kind of, you know, protagonist leading-
Azhelle Wade: The charge.
Steve Rad: being a voice on it, right? Yeah. So, uh, I think it was just a, you know, match made in heaven. So, I can't imagine having another a different partner. And and now, it's our- mind you, ESPN is Disney, and we- we were not a Disney license holder prior to this, right? So, this was our first kind of dive into the Disney ecosystem, and it's just such a- it's been such a ride. Such an amazing ride to be a part of that whole system and and those folks, your professionalism at another level.
Azhelle Wade: Disney owns ESPN. What do they not own?
Steve Rad: What?
Azhelle Wade: Do they own me? I don't know.
Steve Rad: National Geographic, they own that.
Azhelle Wade: Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Steve Rad: Yeah. So, it's that's- that's wild.
Azhelle Wade: Wait, really? Wait, I did work for National Geographic. So, technically, I've done work for Disney. Thank you. Thank you.
Steve Rad: Yeah.
Azhelle Wade: Okay. I am just, yeah, I- I love it. I guess I I'm feeling like you are the like Netflix of VR.
Steve Rad: We we definitely are entertainment- We're We're starting to position, you know, and not everything we do is VR, like Pixicade, you know, where where-
Azhelle Wade: Oh, I love, yeah.
Steve Rad: draw draw and turn it into a video game. It's it's kind of a non, you know, uh it's tech-based but non-VR. Um but yeah, I mean, look, VR- It's started We started using VR as a as an additional layer. We- everything we made had, you know, tangible projects and experiments. It it had a book, because we wanted to stay, you know, in that educational, you know, realm. And we added VR just as like a extra layer of like, "Hey, you built the volcano,"
Azhelle Wade: Yeah, that's the kid I played with. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Steve Rad: you can go see the volcano in VR. Like, put on the goggles and dive in and see it, you know? So, we just wanted to add that one additional layer that just took you there and teleported you to a place where you can make sense of it all in real life, right? So, it was never intended to just be the main catalyst. But now, like I said, as we get into like, you know, haunted mansions stuff, and, you know, "Choose Your Own Adventure" kind of thing, now it's going to become a, you know, kind of a more of a deeper approach on how to make it more exciting and and thrilling, you know? I want to scare people.
Azhelle Wade: I am ready. I am ready.
Steve Rad: Turns out kids love being scared.
Azhelle Wade: I have played a scary VR that when I- when I went it was the- the same exhibit I mentioned earlier. I went up to the station and I'm like, "Okay, I want to do this one," and she said, "Do you have a heart condition?" And I was like, "No."
Steve Rad: You're like, "Not now. Will I have experienced?" No.
Azhelle Wade: It was very concerning, but yes, I'm in. Okay, tell me one- well, you already kind of shared this, but I would love to hear a constraint. Like, one licensing constraint that actually led to a creative solution.
Steve Rad: Oh, I mean, licensing constraints, um, other than financial, it's like- it's like, you know, "Give me $10 million." Like, I mean, I remember, I remember, uh, with Gordon Ramsay on our uh on our thing with MasterChef. Gordon Ramsay, you know, was like, "I don't look at anything, you know, under a million dollars," and we were like, it was our first year as a brand. We're like, "Bro, can I have a million dollars? Like, I don't even know where to go with this." But, but we got creative and and hired some, you know, chefs and brought in. Uh, we actually went after the kids at that point. We pivoted to to wanting Gordon to all the winners of that show, and and past and former contestants of of MasterChef Junior. And we ended up used, you know, whatever a fraction of that, uh, budget, and brought in the actual kids and got creative and and got to tell all their stories. And like, why did this kid who won MasterChef think that pairing whatever chocolate pecans was the right way to, you know, I mean, like, really get got got to see the the, you know, their entire angle, which really made it fun and more creative. The item did great as a result. But but yeah, I mean, there's, if you have if you have the the cash flow and the bandwidth to spend whatever, like licensing, you know, I mean, I love the licensing shows. It's my favorite thing. But, um, I think just with the right audience, if you can get the right product and the right license together, right? And it just and then the play pattern all just makes sense, it's just such an it's just such a hit. It's just such a fun way to create dynamic products when you know, like, okay, if I get haunted mansion people to do this inside the thing with the, you know, with this kind of play pattern, they're going to have a blast, right? I love that. I actually love licensing.
Azhelle Wade: As I'm thinking through what I want to ask next, I'm- it's making me realize uh that your product development process for a product like this must look like somewhat of a like a movie storyboarding process.
Steve Rad: It does. It does. We wireframe everything, we storyboard everything. Uh, our our app dev team, you know, uh, the way they map things out. Uh, we did that Cold Case um thing where it was a Cold Case VR, which was our kind of first adult game 14-plus, where it was a murder mystery. Uh, and the way we I mean, we built like 15 websites that are, you know, live in the wild right now still, and, you know, the way you go through that game, it's- it's literally like watching a movie, half of it's like solving a crime, and the other half is just, you know, breaking into iCloud accounts and breaking cracking a WhatsApp, you know, and it's just really crazy.
Azhelle Wade: Oh, I haven't played that.
Steve Rad: Oh yeah, but yeah, it's- it's a lot of planning and a lot of wireframing pre- pre, you know, production.
Azhelle Wade: So, in doing all of that, what is something that you decided with ESPN Virtual Reality that you thought was going to make kids feel more immersed and less like they were just like reading a book about sports?
Steve Rad: Yeah, so that's why we, so every for every like two or three experiences where it's more about coaching and learning, we throw you out of a building. Right? So, it was just like to- so to just to feed it differently. We don't want you in there bored, we don't want you in there, you know, we have to keep you engaged. So, it was like a lesson, and then like the top 10 list, and then jump out of an airplane. And then back inside the Sportscenter studio, and then let's skate the ice with the Stanley Cup, and let's- let's go watch a, you know, let's watch a three-point shot sequence and learn a little bit, something, you know, in a stadium, on a field, out of a plane.
Azhelle Wade: I'm so excited to get mine.
Steve Rad: There's just peppered like-
Azhelle Wade: Is it better if I'm playing with it to put it on while standing, because some of these experience seem like, "Okay." No?
Steve Rad: No.
Azhelle Wade: It won't feel like more immersive if I'm like standing.
Steve Rad: Yeah, V- V- VR uh is recommended while seated.
Azhelle Wade: Yeah. I just like, if I start falling out of a building, I mean, that might be more fun if I know I'm not sitting. So,
Steve Rad: No, I'll send you a YouTube video of what can go wrong if you stand if you walk around while in VR.
Azhelle Wade: I have seen videos of kids hitting into into TVs. I would stay seated still. I just want to feel like I'm really there.
Steve Rad: We have this is our first influencer product with Alan Becker. You know, and we're we're just he just dropped a video. This guy's 31 million subscribers, right? So,
Azhelle Wade: He's such a sweetheart. Yeah, he's the nicest guy. Yeah. And he just dropped the video on YouTube and it got like 2 million views yesterday on the same day that it dropped.
Steve Rad: Can you imagine? Yeah, the needle definitely moved on Amazon. So, that spikes for sure.
Azhelle Wade: Yeah, I'm working on it. I'm working on it.
Steve Rad: You and I both.
Azhelle Wade: No, you know what? A year- two years ago, I was like, "I'm going to do YouTube." I did, I started it, I had a whole process, I took a course, I did a thing. I got it too easy. My first couple of videos had like 3,000 views after the first week, and I was like, "Oh, YouTube's not that hard." And then I just like slacked, and then it- the algorithm is totally different now. It's like, you don't exist. I have to start over. It was so easy. I've got like a couple of videos with like 14,000 views, but it- it's crazy like what hits and what doesn't. That's why toy reviews, your video, I think is going to be a big one cuz I see a lot of like those um VR games that people are posting with like the recorded screen and their reaction. Like, I think that's going to be a great one. Do you guys do a lot of promo like that on your own YouTube channel?
Steve Rad: We do, we do. We've got a decent uh thing on We've got four or five channels that we manage in-house. I mean, we've got five folks here that are full-time just only doing social all day, every day. We've got the Abacus Brands channel, we've got the Pixicade channel. Um, I've got the Steve Rad stuff that I'm doing for the other people.
Azhelle Wade: Yeah, you should do a lot more of that.
Steve Rad: Yep, yep. It's still there. It's just it's all on YouTube now. It's a lot of it's on just, you know, about manufacturing and sourcing and being whatever. It's it's more of an entrepreneur side than it is than it is just toy focus.
Azhelle Wade: Oh, love that.
Steve Rad: Um but yeah, I mean, you know, it's you- you would you would crush on YouTube. You need to get back.
Azhelle Wade: I am. I am. I am now back on YouTube.
Steve Rad: I support it. I'm here.
Azhelle Wade: We're going back. That's it. We're back. We're doing YouTube. We're back. We did a video. I have one to review. I have like five reviews in the hopper. We're back on YouTube.
Steve Rad: I support it. Thank you.
Azhelle Wade: Team moment that you're proudest of with ESPN Virtual Reality from prototype to the shelf, moment that you said, "My team is crushing it."
Steve Rad: Um, it was when I saw the first uh the first draft of the first ever experience. They sent me this is like whatever during the summer. Um, the team uh led by uh some folks in the Vancouver office, they sent me the first kind of VR experience, like, "Hey, this is the first one we finished. Check it out. If you like it, we'll we'll do all we'll go down this path and this is the direction we'll do as a as a kind of a art direction for all of them. If you don't, let me know." And I remember sending uh I was on the road, and I watched it and I was like, "Woah, hold on." I'm like, "Hold on. What?" And I remember watching it again and I remember getting goggles, cuz I wanted to see it, you know, in VR. Sometimes you watch on YouTube and you're just moving the mouse around trying to see everything. I watched it, and I remember getting like my son and my- I have my people like, "Guys, what just happened?" And I sent this email to the team that was basically like, "This is the proudest, this is the highest bar as a team we've ever raised. I can't even believe this came out of Abacus Brands. Guys, I'm so proud of you." And and the team I sent it to was like, "Oh, don't forget, you know, this person and that person and that person." I'm like, "Dude, get send it to everybody." I'm like, "I'm so I just it was a true proud dad moment as a business owner, father, to be like, I can't believe we made this." And I and then I shared it with a- folks at ESPN, and they were like, "What?"
Azhelle Wade: Really?
Steve Rad: Yeah. So, it was just incredible.
Azhelle Wade: Do you think it was something about the brand of America that like kind of ignited a fire under everybody to like do something big?
Steve Rad: It would- it was a combination of the way, you know, Adnan Virk delivered the content in the studio when we filmed him on a green screen. The way the team edited it and put it, you know, into the sequence. The motion graphics that they used, the way that your attention moved to different things and how immersive it felt and the quality. It literally felt like you were watching Sportscenter. You're in there.
Azhelle Wade: But all around you. Yeah.
Steve Rad: I'm on the set. Wow. So, yeah, I mean, not that I was expecting anything less, but they truly raised the bar, they like blew my mind on that first. I'm like, "This is the first. I'm like, 'This is done. How much money did we spend on- What did it take?'" They said, "Achieve, get. We're done."
Azhelle Wade: You know, it- this says a lot about having the right person to kick off a project, because like having the right host might have inspired people. They got that raw footage, and they're like, "Oh, we can't, you know,"
Steve Rad: I know what you're saying. Yeah. That was the way with the Bill Nye stuff. Bill Nye did such a good job delivering, and he- his- his just passion. You work with anybody that has a passion about whatever subject, the way it shines, the way they deliver, makes you just be like, "Mess this up. I can't like go and under-sell this. Like, this guy already brought the heat."
Azhelle Wade: Yes.
Steve Rad: Double down.
Azhelle Wade: Love it.
Steve Rad: So, yeah, I mean, they all they crushed it.
Azhelle Wade: Okay, let's get into our closing questions. What are you hoping to achieve one year from now with Abacus Brands?
Steve Rad: Um, we are hoping to just continue growing, and uh we are hoping to continue uh to to become a a trusted, reputable, you know, product line. I know as a dad, when I buy something from a company that I love, I keep going back to them because I know that they're going to give me good stuff. Like, you know, as parents, when you- when you show up to a birthday party, you you want to always be the parent that brought something cool or new or fun, that, you know, I like saying that I introduced you to the Pixicade for the first time, or, or, "Remember when- Don't forget who- who introduced you to Osmo for the first time?" Like, for years, Osmo was my thing. Then for years, Pixicade was my thing, and that's what I would take to everyone because I knew it was going to be cool. Yeah. So, I want to be that brand. I want to be that brand that parents come to for whatever birthday or for whatever year-round needs are from 20 to 40 bucks that they know they can get a good gift that's going to stand out, that's going to resonate with the kids, uh, is not it's not going to fall after a random trend that dies tomorrow, but it's going to be a consistent that they can place into someone's hands.
Azhelle Wade: Yeah, I mean, you are building an incredible portfolio. I didn't realize until we were booking this interview that you also either are partnered with or own Holo Toyz now?
Steve Rad: Uh, we're distribution partner. Oh, you're a distribution partner.
Azhelle Wade: I was like, "When did he make-
Steve Rad: Yeah, in US and Canada.
Azhelle Wade: Yeah, they're cool.
Steve Rad: We do, they're great people. We do their distribution uh in US and Canada and a couple other places, and we help them, we're actually helping them develop um and manufacture the new Barbie Magic Styles Studio, where it's our first ever time that you can dress up Barbie with magnets and scan her, and she comes out in augmented reality wearing the outfit you dress up with.
Azhelle Wade: Oh, I got to message them and get a copy of that. I got to get that.
Steve Rad: It's so cool.
Azhelle Wade: Absolutely. That's great.
Steve Rad: They're in- they're in a great direction, Holo Toyz right now with that new item. We're across the street from Mattel. There in L.A., and it's just been a great, great partnership.
Azhelle Wade: Yeah, also didn't know you were in L.A. You have New York vibes to me. When you- you emailed me, and you were like, "What time zone are you in?" I was like, "What do you mean, dude? Like, are we not?"
Steve Rad: You keep you keep sending me these requests. I'm like 4:30 in the morning.
Azhelle Wade: I was like, "How are you not in New York?" I don't- You're New York energy.
Steve Rad: For sure. 100%. And I- and you know, I spent the last few years in Vancouver, which was like, you know, a village basically. It's like, you know, in this area, but we got we got a great team up there, but the the the city in Vancouver is just so laid-back. It's so like- it's just not my speed.
Azhelle Wade: So, maybe it did. You needed a- you know, you needed a cool-
Steve Rad: We'll see. That's why I spent 10 years that played a role in my life.
Azhelle Wade: What piece of advice do you wish that more people knew about when they're starting a toy business?
Steve Rad: Um, I think it's not as hard as you think if you care about how the consumer is going to react with it. Don't get don't get caught up in how, you know, the how will come. You'll figure out, you know, the tools and the resources. Don't ever worry about the money and the financing. Just worry about making something dope. Whatever it is, whatever the story is that you want to tell through that item, however you want people to feel, you know, uh connecting with it or playing with it. Whatever that experience is, be it short or long, whatever, just don't get caught up in the how. How am I going to get the money to do it? Who's going to make it? All that stuff comes. All that stuff just materializes once you know exactly what it is you want to the story you want to tell.
Azhelle Wade: Ooh, love that. And what toy or game blew your mind as a kid?
Steve Rad: Oh my god. I mean, I was a- I was a G.I. Joe kid, but, um, the the- the I mean, oh my god, I- I was a- a film guy. Like, I I received a a, you know, whatever, fake camera as a kid, and then was starting, you know, whatever, making my TikToks at age whatever, eight, you know? So, like, if you saw my vault of like, you know, uh cameras, but I remember getting a toy video camera as a kid, and that's what got pushed me into, you know, I think arts and entertainment and just being a clown, you know, like clown or clownery.
Azhelle Wade: I mean, the production quality of the videos that I saw you posting on LinkedIn, I was like, "Wow, Steve isn't messing around."
Steve Rad: You know, it's like, I think with the camera quality is getting so much easier now to to look good, right? Like, us old people, I'm like- I'm not talking for you. When you get over 40, you need- you need all the help you can get. Like, $2,000 for the for the lens? Let's do it.
Azhelle Wade: Oh, no, you just needed a camera with a filter capability, like I have.
Steve Rad: I know.
Azhelle Wade: You just need-
Steve Rad: I need to start though. Seriously. You know, I don't know who who made up that rule. Why guys got to look all busted up, you know, all natural?
Azhelle Wade: When I did On Brand with Jimmy Fallon, the guys would come out of the dressing room and they'd be like so confident. They would be so confident. They'd be like, "I kind of like how this makeup looks on me." It was so funny. Yeah.
Steve Rad: Yeah, they're like, "Bro, incredible."
Azhelle Wade: Amazing. Okay. So, I just want to quickly summarize. This has been a great great interview. We went so many different directions. There's something for the entrepreneurs here, there's something for the retailers here, and I just want to highlight ESPN Virtual Reality for educational toy of the year 2026.
Steve Rad: Please vote for us, guys. If you haven't voted yet, please get in there and vote. It means a lot to us, honestly. This is And and I and I'm the guy that votes for everybody else's product, but this- this we really want this one.
Azhelle Wade: Yeah, and you have to be a member of the Toy Association to vote for this category, but you can also vote People's Choice Awards if you're not a member of the association. But I don't know if you knew this, media can also vote. So, if you're a toy influencer or any kind, you need to contact the Toy Association, say, "I am media," and they will send you a link and get you set up to vote as well. Let's get those votes in for ESPN Virtual Reality.
Steve Rad: Thank you.
Azhelle Wade: Yes, Steve, thank you so much for coming on the show today.
Steve Rad: I appreciate it.
Azhelle Wade: It was a pleasure talking to you. As always,
Steve Rad: Thank you.
Azhelle Wade: it was a pleasure. Oh, this spotlight includes some paid promotion with Abacus Brands. As always, thank you so much for spending this time with me today. I know your time is valuable, and that there are other podcasts out there, so it truly means the world to me that you tune into this one. Until next week, I'll see you later, toy people. Bye.
Steve Rad: Thank you.
Outro: Thanks for listening to Making It in the Toy Industry podcast with Azhelle Wade. Head over to thetoycoach.com for more information, tips, and advice.
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