#282: Why Toy Companies Are Switching to Manufacturing in India with Joshua Punin
Even with the recent increased tariffs on India, many of my clients and students have been seeking out new factory partnerships in this country. For decades, China has been the go-to destination for toy production, and they are indisputably the best at producing high quality goods quickly, but what happens when rising costs, shipping delays, and shifting global policies force toy makers to look elsewhere?
That’s the exact question that international toy expert and Source 4 India co-founder Joshua Punin has been exploring for the past 16+ years. With firsthand experience helping major brands expand across Asia and deep ties to India’s emerging toy manufacturing scene, Joshua has become a powerful voice advocating for alternative sourcing strategies.
In this episode of Making It in the Toy Industry, Joshua and I cover:
Why a shift in India’s import tariffs sparked a nationwide manufacturing movement.
The surprising challenges and advantages of producing toys in India.
What startup creators need to know before reaching out to Indian factories.
Why sourcing outside of China isn’t about replacing, it’s about expanding your opportunities.
How India’s skilled labor force, tax incentives, and infrastructure make it one to watch.
If you’ve been curious about what it would really look like to source outside of China, or you’ve heard whispers about India but didn’t know where to start, this episode is your starting point. Hit play to discover new possibilities and learn what it really takes to make that shift.
Listen For These Important Moments
[00:19:12] - Discover how policy changes and infrastructure improvements are creating real opportunities for both startups and established brands.
[00:25:10] - Not every toy is a perfect fit, save time and money by understanding what India can (and can’t) do efficiently right now.
[00:27:46] - Get clarity on production expectations so you can plan your launch and scale strategy with confidence.
[00:28:44] - Shipping from India could be cheaper and faster than you think, especially if you're selling in Europe or the Middle East.
[00:31:19] - Hear what Joshua looks for in potential clients and how to position your startup to be taken seriously by manufacturers.
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This episode is brought to you by www.thetoycoach.com
Visit https://www.source4india.com/ or reach out to Joshua Punin directly on LinkedIn to start the conversation. Whether you're a startup or scaling brand, Source 4 India offers hands-on support to guide you through the sourcing process—transparently, efficiently, and with care.
Ready to work with Azhelle? JoinToy Creators Academy.
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[00:00:00] Azhelle Wade: You are listening to Making It In The Toy Industry, episode number 282.
[00:00:10] Voiceover: Welcome to Making It in The Toy Industry, a podcast for inventors, entrepreneurs, and makers like you. And now your. Azhelle Wade.
[00:00:22] Azhelle Wade: Hey there toy people. This week on the podcast, I'm resharing an interview I did with Joshua Punin. It's well time now because we're, there's so much conversation around resourcing toy products in India, even though new higher tariffs were recently placed on India as well.
[00:00:39] Azhelle Wade: Well, it's pretty clear that we have to be ready for. Any situation today. So that means having factory partners in multiple countries. So I thought, what better time than now to bring back an old episode and remind you of a contact that we made here on the show and are happy to share with you? Joshua Punin, the co-founder of Source 4 India.
[00:01:01] Azhelle Wade: Without further ado, let's dive into this week's episode. Today's guest on the podcast is Joshua Nan, who is the owner of Source for India. I don't remember what post I saw you on, what article I saw you on, but I remember reaching out to my media manager and saying, we need to get this guy on the podcast and we've gotta talk about sourcing outside of China, like other options for sourcing.
[00:01:25] Azhelle Wade: So I'm so excited to have you on the show today. Welcome, Joshua.
[00:01:29] Joshua Punin: Thank you, Azhelle. It's a pleasure and thank you so much for having me on here today. I think one of the reasons, maybe it came up somewhere along the lines of LinkedIn or somewhere was, There's an article done by Jacqueline Vong, who I've known for some time, right.
[00:01:42] Joshua Punin: for many years and we worked together and, yeah, I think that's how we kind of got the rhythm flowing on the India story earlier last year. So thank you for your patience and I'm really happy to be here today.
[00:01:55] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. This is a time where we have to be flexible. I mean, because like things change in an instant.
[00:02:01] Azhelle Wade: Absolutely. But lemme give absolutely a quick background on Josh. Working in the international toy industry for 16 years based out of Sydney, Australia. Josh has an extensive experience as an international sales director with a demonstrated history of working in the consumer children's toy industry strategically for 16 years.
[00:02:20] Azhelle Wade: Representing some of the largest toy brands in the world. Also has the largest agency in the Asia Pacific region. Josh, you've worked with well-known brands such as Peppa Pig, MGA's, LOL, Suzu Pets, and as well as many other established brands across the Asia Pacific region and Pan India. So in 2005, Josh started traveling and working throughout the Indian toy market to build numerous toy companies position in the market today.
[00:02:47] Azhelle Wade: And that's what I wanna talk about because. So many listeners of this podcast, students of Toy Creators Academy, are interested in hearing more about manufacturing outside of China. And since that's not my specific area of expertise, I thought why not bring an expert on the show? So welcome again, Josh.
[00:03:06] Azhelle Wade: Would you please give us a little bit of a background just. I wanna hear almost how your story started before the toy industry, and then we can get into the toy industry, if that sounds good to you.
[00:03:16] Joshua Punin: Yeah, that sounds good. I'll try to be as brief as I can. Okay. on that side of it. Yeah. So finished university.
[00:03:22] Joshua Punin: I studied a Bachelor of business in, Sydney. I then looked at getting into the marketing, side of, Of the business. So I ended up joining Microsoft early on in my career in Sydney, in a marketing role, from a junior. And then I was able to move into a kind of a minor product manager role. And from then I was looking to stay in tech.
[00:03:41] Joshua Punin: In those days, Microsoft liked you to go out, get a job somewhere else, and come back later as a senior. So they gave you that experience and then were able to push you along and say, why don't you go work with a partner? So I, went out there. Thought about it and then just lo and behold, there was an opportunity that came up in the toy business through a, very close family member and said, look.
[00:04:01] Joshua Punin: There's an interesting opportunity for you. Why don't you try the toys out? And if it doesn't work, you can go back into your marketing position in a tech, company. I said, you know what sounds interesting. It's toys. I always loved toys as a kid who didn't. Lots of Star Wars at home from memories there.
[00:04:15] Joshua Punin: Millennium Falcon in my, bedroom up until the age of at least 12 years old. So I thought, okay, if it doesn't work out, I'll go back. And then basically I was thrown into the deep end internationally. I had no idea what I was doing. I. Basically was put on a plane to go out and go to a few trade fairs, early on.
[00:04:34] Azhelle Wade: Yeah.
[00:04:34] Joshua Punin: And then. I was exposed to a lot of toy companies early on in my early twenties, and I was introduced to people at Playmates at the time, which were famous for Turtles, n turtles. And then I was introduced to MGA very early on and I was introduced to companies like Character Options and Vivid and I mean the list goes on and I was able to then to sort tap into different markets across Asia and I was jumping around to the countries like Korea and Japan and, China and India very early on.
[00:05:02] Joshua Punin: And that's how I was exposed to these markets. And I was very fortunate to be able to forward some wonderful, relationships with a lot of business partners, in Asia. And I could see the shift very early on and where it could go, especially India. I could see early on in 2005, 2006 when I was there that this is the early, this is the beginning.
[00:05:23] Joshua Punin: This is when you're somewhere and say to yourself in 15 to 20 years, it's gonna be interesting. Let's see where this goes. you could smell it in the air. And so 16 years later, the penny had dropped, or almost 14 years later, the penny had dropped and said, it's time to look outside the box.
[00:05:39] Joshua Punin: It's time to look around ourselves and see what other options are there in this world. And one thing that I think India's very different in comparison to the other parts of Asia, Southeast Asia, is I don't think it's great in marketing itself. I don't think it's a great promoter of itself. Right. And I, say it the nicest way and I think unfortunately there's a lot of misconceptions and only from my learning, my experience, my learning early on, I could see those differences.
[00:06:09] Joshua Punin: I'm sorry, I actually maybe deviated from the first question, so my apologies if I've gone into a tangent.
[00:06:14] Azhelle Wade: It's okay. It's an interesting tangent. I'm with you. I'm enjoying the tangent. Go.
[00:06:18] Joshua Punin: Okay, go. Okay. So India, very early on, a lot of small businesses out there playing in the toy business and compared to Southeast Asia, we have established companies in Japan and Korea and Taiwan.
[00:06:32] Joshua Punin: It was very different. It was, although it wasn't mature back then, it was still much more mature than India was. And there was only a handful of companies in India that knew what to do with a, international brand, and it was. very difficult to get started. And I'll use an example. When I was, very early in my, early on in my career, I went to career at the age of 24, I had maybe one or two customers to meet and I was put in a position where I had these brands that were not that famous back then, like moose.
[00:07:00] Azhelle Wade: Now,
[00:07:00] Joshua Punin: moose was not that famous back in 2005, 2006.
[00:07:04] Joshua Punin: wasn't that recognized, especially in Asia. I mean, no one had any idea where Asia's dominated by the Japanese brands primarily.
[00:07:11] Joshua Punin: And I'm sitting around working with. With these Korean businessmen to forge deals with us through direct response tv because direct response TV in Korea was very big back in those days versus traditional distribution through the retail channels.
[00:07:24] Joshua Punin: And I was sitting with these guys trying to come up with strategies. How do we launch a new brand, a new product? So already early on I was exposed to being able to push angles in different ways. There it was very different to the traditional European model of show a product to a distribution partner in a country.
[00:07:39] Joshua Punin: And then run with it. I never had that from day one. I was exposed to a very unusual place, a very unusual custom base, a very unusual cultural taste in product that was not as exposed to Western products and say, okay, how do I then take these I these products that may or may not mean anything in the West at this Punint because some of the brands were fairly new and then make them work.
[00:08:00] Joshua Punin: And then you try use that formula elsewhere and try replicate that formula in other countries. And I realized as I was going, it doesn't work. What works in one country in Korea does not work in Japan, and what works in Japan does not work in Taiwan or doesn't work in China. You know, I was in China very early on in 2005 with a very few brands on the shelf, or Western brands on the shelf, and a lot of them were knockoffs.
[00:08:25] Azhelle Wade: Right. You know, when
[00:08:25] Joshua Punin: I went to car four in Shanghai, I'll never forget, I'm in a wall of toys and I think when I was looking at it, I think might one or two of them had a, an actual. Real brand on the shelf versus, I don't mean a knockoff, I mean just a, what I mean is that it's an inspired brand of a transformer or a another well-known product, but it wasn't called Transformers.
[00:08:45] Joshua Punin: India was the same in many ways. So I guess I was given a playground, but it was a very different place to being thrown into Europe and playing with, because there you are completely unknown. Who's this guy from Sydney, Australia who has no idea about this market? And you're telling me. You got a toy that you think my market's gonna like?
[00:09:04] Joshua Punin: I mean, let's be real,
[00:09:05] Azhelle Wade: right? So what year was this happening?
[00:09:08] Joshua Punin: I started in 2005, so it took me a long time. Took me many years. You know, a lot of knocking, a lot of building, a lot of grit. To get some runs on the board. You know, it was only until about 2000, maybe two years later after I started, I was getting some good traction in some markets.
[00:09:24] Azhelle Wade: So let's across Asia. So let's talk de we gotta break this down. We gotta break this way down for my, peoples here. So, absolutely. When, you're talking, when you were saying you started in 2005, what did a typical day look like for you? What were you trying to, what were your goals you were trying to solve?
[00:09:39] Azhelle Wade: Who were you working for? what were you doing?
[00:09:43] Joshua Punin: Okay, so at that time we had a portfolio in our agency of about 30 companies.
[00:09:47] Azhelle Wade: And what agency was this? European.
[00:09:49] Joshua Punin: So at the time this agency was made up in, it is in Sydney. That company had about 30 companies in a portfolio. And those of those 30 companies, you had companies like Moose.
[00:09:58] Joshua Punin: You had companies like Morrison Entertainment, Corinthian Vivid, I mean, we had a lot of companies stomach. Some exist today, some don't exist today. That's the nature of the toy business.
[00:10:08] Azhelle Wade: Yeah,
[00:10:08] Joshua Punin: and with those agents, with those pro, with those products and those brands, they meant some things in Europe.
[00:10:14] Joshua Punin: They meant something maybe in some of them in Australia or New Zealand, some in the us, but they meant absolutely nothing in Asia because Asia was untouched, it was untapped, it was unknown. It was Josh, go on a plane and let's see if we can make these things work because these markets didn't exist.
[00:10:31] Azhelle Wade: And when you say, let's see if you can make these things work, you are saying, let's see if you can sell these product into these Asian markets.
[00:10:39] Joshua Punin: Absolutely. So how did I find customers? How did I look for people? What did I do day to day? Yeah, that's the, how did it just fall from the Squi the sky? No, no one called me and said, Hey Josh, I'm sitting in Seoul. I've heard about you. You're a nice guy in Sydney. Mind you, it's before Facebook and Instagram that existed.
[00:10:53] Joshua Punin: Right. And, we got your number somewhere in the Yellow Pages and we called you, I wish I used to dream it's yellow page, that might happen.
[00:11:00] Azhelle Wade: Oh my God. So,
[00:11:01] Joshua Punin: I would dream that would happen. But how it happened was that. I might have got a reference to a company, and when I was visiting Korea, I might have had two customers and that customer might have been introduced by somebody else at the time, or they might have looked at something else.
[00:11:17] Joshua Punin: So I tapped into that. But when I was in Korea, I was able to go through the stores. Go through the shops, speak to people, look at the brands, look at the importers, look at who was doing what. And you know, you start to then run the field and you start to make your calls and send your emails and you start doing your blast outs, you start getting on the phone, hustling.
[00:11:37] Joshua Punin: You know, how do we get 'em through to this guy, this company? How do we get, because I knew talking to the staff in these companies were not gonna get me anywhere. I needed to talk to the English speaking staff. That was the decision maker at the end of the day.
[00:11:47] Azhelle Wade: Right.
[00:11:47] Joshua Punin: In some cases, for example, I'll use Bandi Japan.
[00:11:51] Joshua Punin: We all know Bandi. Japan's a very large company. Yeah. Bandi, Japan took me three years to get in touch with the right person from when I started. Wow. So when I started in 2005, it took me three years until the guy in Bandi, Japan. Was willing to have an open conversation with me and then we forged a great relationship once we connected, I think afterwards and we had, some commonalities and it just took time.
[00:12:09] Joshua Punin: And in Asia, it's all about building relationships. It's not about the business today. It's about what's gonna happen in 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 10 years from now that if we can hold hands together initially. And see where things take us. And even if it doesn't work out now, it might work out in the future. So it's a very long-term view.
[00:12:26] Joshua Punin: It's about understanding what their needs are, not what I'm trying to push down their way. You know, it's not about me, it's about them. And once I understood them, then I was able to get it. And then you have to imagine, I have to explain this to the US company,
[00:12:40] Azhelle Wade: okay? And
[00:12:41] Joshua Punin: the European company who have expectations and then they need to understand it's this product that you sold 3 million pieces for in, in the uk.
[00:12:48] Joshua Punin: Guess what? It's not gonna work. It's not gonna sell. It's gotta change. We've gotta change the color, the packaging, the name, you know, it's going from a duck to a platypus. I'm using an example. The product, suddenly, the way it looks on the shelf in, the US or in UK, is gonna look completely different. And that's if you get support.
[00:13:05] Joshua Punin: And the strange thing is, sometimes, and I'll, this, it's just an example of the Toyo industry. We think we have a winner. We have a wonderful product. It's working everywhere else. People are talking about it everywhere. And the company in Japan, or Korea and Taiwan or even India might say, you know what?
[00:13:20] Joshua Punin: We don't like that product, but we like the one next to it. And the other one you can't give away. And you dunno why. But they want that one. They wanna talk about that product that nobody wants to talk about. It might even be shelved. And that's it. It's, you just can't pick it.
[00:13:31] Azhelle Wade: in those early years, did you identify any similarities in the types of products that the Asian market would select?
[00:13:37] Azhelle Wade: Like size, similarities, colors, the way the product was communicated in the packaging or the features that it had?
[00:13:43] Joshua Punin: Yes, I did. I picked up pretty quickly. I knew. Watching the trade and looking at the market, and I walked a lot of retail because you've gotta walk retail in every market to understand what's going on in the ground,
[00:13:53] Azhelle Wade: right?
[00:13:53] Joshua Punin: So after looking at and understanding and speaking to the guys and learning, I realized that when it comes to markets like the Asia Pacific region, and I'm not talking so much Philippines and Singapore and Southeast Asia, I'm talking North Asia right now, it's gotta have a novelty factor. It's gotta have a, wow.
[00:14:09] Joshua Punin: There's gotta be that magic moment in a product. It's gotta be something that can be marketed. And if a customer looks at it and goes, ah. I get it. That's interesting. That's got a wow factor to it. So one of the most successful products I had very early on was a product from Moose called Magic Sand.
[00:14:23] Joshua Punin: This is very, oh, now we all know Magic Sand became a very common property even today. You know, there's lots of versions of magic sand that exist, but this was the first time that we've actually promoted magic sand in the water in Korea, where we had all these incredible colors and it was magical.
[00:14:37] Joshua Punin: We had this product that you could go and mold this sand in the water and then take it out and it was dry. It was magical.
[00:14:43] Azhelle Wade: Yeah.
[00:14:44] Joshua Punin: And so. For that market as, and I use that as an example, it made sense because it was novel, it was very unique and you could market it really well and have that before and after.
[00:14:53] Joshua Punin: And so that would be a prime example of how it would be successful in those markets. A product that was my pinup that was. How I could model the rest of it going forward after that. Because for that product we must have sold two to $3 million worth of product, which is a very big deal. Wow.
[00:15:09] Azhelle Wade: Yeah.
[00:15:10] Joshua Punin: So I gotta say, I made a lot of money for these companies over the years in Asia, and they never expected any of this at the time.
[00:15:16] Joshua Punin: It was only years later. They had expectations for Asia very early on. They didn't know what to expect 'cause it was all unknown territory. All these guys and companies we are talking to, they could have come from Mars. Because it didn't make any difference.
[00:15:28] Azhelle Wade: So now let's say, I don't know, let's fast forward to maybe like 2010.
[00:15:33] Azhelle Wade: What was happening at that Punint? Was it still green? Like where, were you at in 2010?
[00:15:38] Joshua Punin: 2010 was definitely peaking. Asia was really taking off. Okay. What parts of it things are firing off everywhere. Korea was huge. Japan was building. Japan suddenly being an insular market started opening up to Western brands more and more.
[00:15:52] Joshua Punin: Okay.
[00:15:52] Azhelle Wade: They
[00:15:52] Joshua Punin: were open to talking about brands. You know, we had a, I launched a product in Japan called Spray Art years ago, and actually it was phenomenal with a company called Sega Japan. We had done, you know, huge numbers for them, and then we had. Suzu pets that year in 2009. 2010. Yeah. Remember Suzu Pets?
[00:16:09] Azhelle Wade: Yeah, I do.
[00:16:09] Joshua Punin: We, you know, mega deals. I mean, there was a lot flying at that Punint. There were a lot of great products, a lot of great novelty and a lot of open-mindedness in 2010 to New, the world had shut down a bit in 2008, 2009. Right. With the G ffc. Everyone clamped down. Everybody was a bit more cautious.
[00:16:24] Joshua Punin: but in 2010, the doors opened up again and things were roaring up.
[00:16:28] Azhelle Wade: Right. And I
[00:16:28] Joshua Punin: think that was really, it was interesting you picked out 2010 because I think. If I look back now, it was a peak, period for us as a business as well.
[00:16:38] Azhelle Wade: Oh, interesting. I did it 'cause it was five years beyond your 2005 start, but I wanna do another five years, so let's go to 2015.
[00:16:45] Azhelle Wade: What was happening?
[00:16:46] Joshua Punin: 2015? Yeah. 2015. Well, that was a big year. My first Wow. It seems like you're having a lot of big year.
[00:16:52] Azhelle Wade: Yeah, a big year. Yeah. That
[00:16:53] Joshua Punin: was a big year for other reasons, but 2015, generally speaking, it was plateauing a little bit. In 2015 it took 10, so 10 years. And we, get, we got to a comfortable level.
[00:17:05] Joshua Punin: We knew what the, we could start forecasting accurately
[00:17:08] Azhelle Wade: and where are you? We start. At this Punint working was this source for India began when
[00:17:12] Joshua Punin: source for India has been a labor of love for some time. And I'll get to that. I'll get to that soon. Okay. Soon. Okay. Not
[00:17:18] Azhelle Wade: yet. Where are you?
[00:17:18] Joshua Punin: But, not yet.
[00:17:19] Joshua Punin: But in 2015, the agency business, had come to a position where we could start actually really forecasting. We've had a very strong base of customers in a lot of countries and relationships are very strong, and we can get things done pretty quickly. We can work out whether we have something or we don't have something very fast, rather than 10 years earlier.
[00:17:39] Joshua Punin: We're still trying to gauge the market, understand what's going on. It's more mature. Asia's become more mature and more accepting. And I was traveling a lot. You know, I was, you know, I would've been traveling two, three weeks at a time, sometimes across, multiple countries, besides going to trade fairs.
[00:17:54] Joshua Punin: And so I could meet a lot of customers and do a lot of deals, with people and expose 'em to a lot of products. And that's the best way better than any trade fair actually. So I think that, I think 2015, we're starting to get to a Punint where. We're getting comfortable and we can explain to companies where we see things going, where we see brands and price going in each, and they can believe in each region because you have a track record and they can believe and that can Yes, of course.
[00:18:16] Joshua Punin: Of course. Finally, after those years, they can, if I say something and then, what happens is you start getting very conservative because if you start, you know, overselling things. You know, expectation builds. So now you've gotta manage that too. And you've gotta be realistic, not over promise either.
[00:18:29] Joshua Punin: And that's a very important part of the business, and we've gotta be realistic.
[00:18:33] Azhelle Wade: So, okay, so we're, now let's jump to 2020. Okay. When the whole world shut down. Yes. that's right. And I think I just would love to hear like what was happening for you, because first it was the pandemic and.
[00:18:46] Azhelle Wade: Factories shut down. But then when everything reopened, it was a shipping container crisis, which I'm assuming for you was almost like the trigger to probably elevate people looking into India or other options to manufacture. So what, like, yeah, walk us through what happened there.
[00:19:00] Joshua Punin: So Asia. I'll say this to today, Asia's gotta be one of the two areas, Asia and Latin America, to the two worst hit regions.
[00:19:08] Joshua Punin: Wow. In terms of business. Bottom line, just business activity compared to the West. And I come back from New York Toy Fair and I can see things are shutting down. You see all the conservatism kicking in. Everybody goes, you know, into that protective mode. And in Asia, rather than throwing money and spending money, it's the opposite.
[00:19:26] Joshua Punin: It's conserving. We've gotta eat, we've gotta have a roofer over our head. Then funny enough, prior to COVID, I reopened a conversation with a colleague of mine about India and he's actually he's my business partner today. And you know, we've been in touch now for 16 years, ever since I started. And we started talking and he said, Josh, you know, we gotta get talking about India again.
[00:19:45] Joshua Punin: I agree with you. I said, think it's looking like it's time. I think we should start having those conversations. I think it's time to start looking at opportunities. The reason being is not primarily because of alternative manufacturing. It was because the Indian government had changed the rules around the tariffs and the duties of importing goods into India.
[00:20:04] Joshua Punin: It went to 66%
[00:20:06] Azhelle Wade: from
[00:20:07] Joshua Punin: about, I think 20%.
[00:20:09] Azhelle Wade: Wow. Okay.
[00:20:11] Joshua Punin: So it's pretty major.
[00:20:12] Azhelle Wade: Yeah.
[00:20:13] Joshua Punin: And suddenly India, one of the biggest toy markets for us just collapsed. And that was already, the writing on the wall was already in 19 was coming. And so that was already, the conversation started flying at that Punint.
[00:20:25] Azhelle Wade: Wait, I'm sorry.
[00:20:26] Azhelle Wade: Why did that news make you say we should talk about India again? Yes. Yes. Why? Why, why would a higher tariff rate encourage you to do that? Explain.
[00:20:37] Joshua Punin: Because we couldn't import toys. They couldn't import toys into India anymore.
[00:20:41] Azhelle Wade: It
[00:20:41] Joshua Punin: wasn't viable.
[00:20:42] Azhelle Wade: Yeah, it
[00:20:43] Joshua Punin: wasn't viable. Yeah. So why would you, the government, you go after that?
[00:20:45] Joshua Punin: Because the next move was, we need to make the toys in India and we need to supply the market domestically. Oh, we need to. We need to make, we need to look outside the box. And now the door, the conversations opened up.
[00:21:00] Azhelle Wade: Oh, so you weren't thinking about, oh, I get it. You weren't thinking about like the manufacturing to export.
[00:21:05] Azhelle Wade: It was like they couldn't literal, literally. Well, how, I mean, that was one part. It was, but like
[00:21:08] Joshua Punin: always the, it was already pride. That's, forget COVID for a minute. This was already right. This is like, so it was before and after that was the marriage of this.
[00:21:16] Joshua Punin: And so the conversation was about how do we service this wonderful market without losing the opportunity?
[00:21:23] Joshua Punin: And then COVID hit and then the conversation went from that to. We need to look out of, we need to look at options of other companies because we know what we can do in India.
[00:21:33] Azhelle Wade: So go ahead. So the penny had
[00:21:34] Joshua Punin: dropped twice. The penny had dropped twice and. I've been talking about India for years. I mean, it was not an overnight conversation.
[00:21:40] Joshua Punin: This has been an ongoing discussion about one day we'll get to a Punint where we can manufacture in India. We can make India the next hub of China. It's coming. We used to talk about this all the time, so this was not a, new topic. It's just that you need those moments, you need those defining changes to make the moves to inspire everybody to think outside the box.
[00:22:01] Joshua Punin: And there were two reasons. That still exists. And so that conversation prior to COVID and then suddenly COVID hit, like you said, March hit, the world was changing. We were all panicking. And I got on the phone to my colleague over in India and I said, to him, listen, we need to address this now. We know there are issues that have China.
[00:22:22] Joshua Punin: There are gonna be more issues outta China. We know we need to be able to provide opportunities to supply goods into India as well. We need to look at both sides of it because it's very, real and I can sense talking to a lot of the companies I know in Europe and the US. They wanna look outside the box.
[00:22:39] Joshua Punin: They're ready. They weren't ready a year ago. Or two years ago. But they're ready to talk. Yeah. They're ready to listen. Forget talking. They're ready to listen at least.
[00:22:46] Azhelle Wade: Right, right.
[00:22:47] Joshua Punin: And so we decided, let's start talking to companies we are familiar with in India. Let's start discussing what we can produce.
[00:22:55] Joshua Punin: Let's start looking at the options there. So we started going. Through every single company we knew in India.
[00:23:02] Azhelle Wade: Wait, I just realized that you did all of this remotely because before we started this interview, you told me you haven't traveled in two years. Wow. That's right. Wow. Okay. That's cool. Yeah. Look at you.
[00:23:12] Azhelle Wade: This
[00:23:12] Joshua Punin: is, yeah, this was talking about not sleeping and not eating and not doing anything else. That's what it was. All of that and above. And, you know, locking yourself up in a room. it reminds me actually. Of a documentary. Sorry, I'm on a tangent. It's a very good documentary about Dr. Dre. the headphones that was sold, the beats.
[00:23:31] Joshua Punin: there's a very famous Yeah. Beats. And the guy, the, I forgot his name, his very famous, producer, he did the deal, who's the guy responsible for doing the deal with the beats? And he locked himself in the bathroom then. And he didn't come out for days or weeks when he was doing the, deals.
[00:23:44] Joshua Punin: Wow. For the beat, you know, it was part of the documentary and I feel like I was the same. I was locked in a room and I was not going anywhere. Until I was getting these agreements done, making sure we can find the right companies, manufacturers in India to produce for us because I had to explain what our expectations were, right?
[00:24:00] Joshua Punin: And so we were going through it and we, and remember they were also in lockdown in India, so we were all in a position where we couldn't leave or go, and we were on calls going through videos and through. Images and we're going through technicalities of what we can, produce. Wow. And, not every factory is from the toy industry.
[00:24:17] Joshua Punin: Right. And we can get to that later, but you know, they're from automobile industry, right? They're from spare parts industry. They're from the furniture industry. So we are curating while we're doing this, we're also curating factories into coming to the fold.
[00:24:30] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. And
[00:24:30] Joshua Punin: educating them. So there's those who are around, which are a handful, and then there's those who we need on board to leverage from their expertise.
[00:24:37] Joshua Punin: So this was not like someone walking to China and saying, okay, let's just get a couple of factories and show what they make. This is from scratch.
[00:24:44] Azhelle Wade: No. Yeah. This is, I, you know, this is like, probably like the eighties. In China,
[00:24:49] Joshua Punin: roughly. this is, yeah, this is, except I can't run around on a plane from Bangalore to, to Mumbai, to Delhi, to Pune, to Chennai and do it.
[00:24:57] Joshua Punin: I've gotta do it through, you know, and thank goodness I've got my, my business partner, who's an amazing man, 30 year veteran of the industry. David Sage, who I work with hand in hand, and, based there. Based in Chennai. He lives in Chennai in India. He's based there. And, as I said, we've known each other for forever and there's a great trust and, mutual respect for each other.
[00:25:20] Joshua Punin: And we just made this happen. And we've now, today I think we have, I don't know, we must have over 30 factories we're working with in India today in many different areas of expertise that can produce a lot of different types of products and different materials. Plastic. Oh, that's fantastic.
[00:25:36] Azhelle Wade: So I have to stop you right now because I know my listeners are thinking they're saying what, Josh, you've got all that set up.
[00:25:42] Azhelle Wade: How do I get in touch with your company source for India? How do I, sorry. Manufacturing in India. Like are there MOQ limits? Like what if I'm a startup, what, do I tell? Tell us more, Josh. How do, we begin?
[00:25:56] Joshua Punin: Alright. Okay. This is great question. I'll try to explain as succinctly as I can. India is not China.
[00:26:01] Joshua Punin: I'm gonna be, I'll be honest, it's not China. Okay. And I'm not gonna pretend it is because when I say that, I don't mean we can't produce everything they produce. It's the efficiency.
[00:26:10] Azhelle Wade: Yes. Okay.
[00:26:11] Joshua Punin: So efficiencies are the learning block, and we are getting better and the factories are getting better every day.
[00:26:17] Joshua Punin: the engineers are amazing. The, teams are amazing. The in-house, qa, qc, even our own internal qa, QC is fantastic and our company, and there are some things that we can do, but what Indias are not set up yet for are doing the small runs. Okay. Now we could do a plush in terms of soft goods. We could do the small runs, right.
[00:26:39] Azhelle Wade: And define small runs. 500, 1000, 2000. Yeah.
[00:26:42] Joshua Punin: 500, a thousand. Yeah, I think 500, a thousand. I think that is where India's not ready for. We still in the game for getting the commitments where we're onboarding factories, where we've gotta get sizable volumes through where we need to build up, you know, the economies of scale.
[00:27:02] Azhelle Wade: Yeah.
[00:27:02] Joshua Punin: Which we are doing. Okay. And that's where we are with India. It doesn't mean we won't in the next two years or because a lot's happened in the last 12 months, and it could be in another 12 months we could say jail. You know, it's looking damn good. What do you wanna make? What are your, ready?
[00:27:16] Joshua Punin: What do your listeners wanna make? Because I'm, open. We're ready, to, hold their hand and this process. Is handholding not only for the factory on our side, it's handholding for the customer and we are there the entire way from beginning to end and we run the feasibilities. We listen to everybody and we don't push anything that we cannot do or feel comfortable doing.
[00:27:40] Joshua Punin: We are very transparent that way because if we are not, we're gonna have a lot of disapPuninted people. And we don't want that. We want India to be a great experience for companies that are, coming on board.
[00:27:51] Azhelle Wade: So it's not set up for big runs, but small runs for plush. And you said one other material is feasible.
[00:27:58] Joshua Punin: Plush is feasible for small runs we could do in terms of plastics and, wood. Wood, That's what I gonna ask. Wooden products. We have amazing partners in wood and we've explored India extensively. we've got amazing companies that can produce wooden product. Again, they're able to do the smaller runs as well, capable of meeting the requirements for the European and US standards, which are very important.
[00:28:22] Azhelle Wade: Yeah,
[00:28:23] Joshua Punin: and I think in terms of the plastics and general toy, let's called a mass market toy. We need to do the runs, we need the volumes. Like
[00:28:31] Azhelle Wade: what, 25,000? Like what are we talking?
[00:28:33] Joshua Punin: 5,000. Yeah. 5,000 plus.
[00:28:35] Azhelle Wade: Oh five oh,
[00:28:36] Joshua Punin: okay. Yeah. 5,000 or 10,000. But you know, we're talking about mul not one sku. It would have to be one, you know, an assortment.
[00:28:44] Joshua Punin: So let's say there's a range and there's five, different skews in an assortment, we'd have to do 20,000, let's say, to make it feasible. 20,000 pieces.
[00:28:53] Azhelle Wade: And I'm also wondering like, what's your annual. Expectation, like what are factories looking at annually to get from these toy opportunities?
[00:29:01] Joshua Punin: Yes.
[00:29:01] Joshua Punin: Volume wise or dollar wise?
[00:29:03] Azhelle Wade: Volume wise.
[00:29:04] Joshua Punin: I think 50,000 pieces plus on an item, is where you'd probably beat a comfort level.
[00:29:09] Azhelle Wade: Right.
[00:29:10] Joshua Punin: I think that's where it makes sense. I'm talking general plastics. Yeah. It doesn't mean we can't do the smaller runs, it just means that they're gonna be maybe not as cost effective.
[00:29:18] Azhelle Wade: Right.
[00:29:18] Joshua Punin: But if I say that you're not a cost effective. Also, you look at the freight rates now, the way it's the way it's looking.
[00:29:23] Azhelle Wade: So, yeah, I wanna get into a comparison conversation if we can. Sure. So, yeah, let's talk a little bit about freight rates comparative to China. What, can you share?
[00:29:32] Joshua Punin: Yeah, I can share a couple of examples.
[00:29:34] Joshua Punin: you know, it's very dynamic at the moment. Today. You make a phone call to a freight company, it's XPRIZE tomorrow, it's another price. Yeah. It could be changing hours, like as it being loaded onto
[00:29:42] Azhelle Wade: the ship. Yeah. Like, oh, it's actually gone up $5,000. Like what?
[00:29:46] Joshua Punin: I've heard stories like, listen, I've heard stories like that.
[00:29:49] Joshua Punin: I've heard some pretty bad ones, you know? Oh my gosh. So. I think India, in terms of going to the West Coast and US or going to Europe, we're faster and we're, gonna be a bit more cost effective. There's been variances going back five months ago. There's probably a 30 to 40% variance. In the shipping, I'd say, you know about that period time when it was really bad.
[00:30:10] Azhelle Wade: Okay.
[00:30:11] Joshua Punin: Yeah. It was really bad. So that, exactly, so it was, around that range. We're definitely lower in terms of China, but it depends on the freight forwarder, it depends on the day. Generally speaking, it's, if I, if you ask me what's better, yes. From India, it's more cost effective. And then we need to look at the net outcome at the end of the day landed on terms of are we competitive?
[00:30:31] Joshua Punin: Even though India may or may not be as expensive or as cheap as China, what is the net outcome when it lands country? Let's define landed. Okay. landed means FOB, freight on board the port. Bring on board. Board. You gotta
[00:30:46] Azhelle Wade: define,
[00:30:46] Azhelle Wade: it. All. Everything,
[00:30:47] Joshua Punin: yeah. Def define, yes. Everything. And then, obviously clearance of customs in the, desired port of choice, whether it's Hamburg or whether it's Manchester, wherever it might be.
[00:30:57] Joshua Punin: That is how we measure. We should measure India not measured by the FOB price from the factory or the X Works price, but measured by the landed price, because that is where we are making a difference.
[00:31:09] Azhelle Wade: Ah, that is
[00:31:10] Joshua Punin: where. It is going to be more interesting also to Europe. It's faster, it's quicker. I was
[00:31:16] Azhelle Wade: gonna ask that next, like yeah, what's the speed look like?
[00:31:19] Azhelle Wade: Okay. How much quicker? At least,
[00:31:20] Joshua Punin: well, 20 days, I think. 21 days to some parts of Europe, I think it's considerably quicker. You know, I think it's considerably quicker to China from China, especially when you need goods in time. You know, when you're looking to get replenishment, and remember now everybody wants to replenish.
[00:31:33] Joshua Punin: Rather than loading up the inventory. Right. So now we've got these runs that are happening more continuously, whereas Europe used to plan one year ahead or Or X amount. It's becoming more on demand. Right. Which is much tougher. It's much tougher, you know, especially with the time difference and the delay.
[00:31:49] Joshua Punin: So I think there's that play as well, whereas the proximity and the, distance and the time, you know, I think there's a factor there to be considered when it comes to Europe and Middle East, obviously, as well.
[00:31:59] Azhelle Wade: What about just like the speed of like product development, also the speed of communication.
[00:32:06] Azhelle Wade: Like, I mean, have you worked with, manufacturers in China, like doing this whole process as well? Because I know you were doing sales and distribution primarily. Yes,
[00:32:12] Joshua Punin: I was. I've, actually manufactured goods my, over the years, I've, gone involved in manufacture some products on my own over the years.
[00:32:18] Joshua Punin: Oh, okay. In China, so, so how would you care? Yeah, so cyber have a different experience, care, the
[00:32:21] Azhelle Wade: communications. 'cause some people just might be so afraid of it and feel like, oh my gosh, it's like a whole other. Way of speaking and dealing with people I don't even know how to do. Like what, how do you feel that the communications are?
[00:32:31] Azhelle Wade: Do they vary or different or is it similar?
[00:32:35] Joshua Punin: It's a great question, and I'll say this to you. 25% of the population of India speaks English.
[00:32:40] Azhelle Wade: Yeah.
[00:32:42] Joshua Punin: Right. Yeah. I Versus 5% in China.
[00:32:44] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. I feel like most of versus 5%.
[00:32:47] Joshua Punin: Yes. No, that's the stat. That's the stats. Whether it's accurate or not. Yeah.
[00:32:51] Joshua Punin: That's the stats. That's the stats. I think. Interesting. It might be skewed. I think India's got higher. I think English speaking is higher. In India, I think it's probably more like 40, 50%. And I'm expecting China would be probably around the. 25%. But I'm going off of the stats, the stats that on record that I can find.
[00:33:05] Joshua Punin: Yeah. But language is a huge factor. Communication. So how is communication,
[00:33:10] Azhelle Wade: right?
[00:33:10] Joshua Punin: Communication is fantastic. Right? If that from actual communication, in terms of requirements and in terms of what people want, there's an education process. So whatever you make in China doesn't necessarily mean it's made in India right now, which means you need to take that next step further and explain to them, what are you doing?
[00:33:30] Joshua Punin: You're gonna have to give a lot more detail. A lot more detail to the companies in India. Give us an
[00:33:35] Azhelle Wade: example.
[00:33:36] Joshua Punin: Okay. I wanna produce a collectible figure. Firstly, that collectible figure might be made of a certain TPR or TPE material.
[00:33:43] Joshua Punin: And you've gotta a feel. You might have a feel where it's a squishiness.
[00:33:46] Joshua Punin: Now how do I get that squishiness? I can measure the density, but. What's the true feeling of it? The true feeling is a formula. Now. The formula of how it's put together, how do I get that formula now? It doesn't mean the factory in China's gonna say, by the way, thanks so much. I understand you would like to move to India or your manufacturing.
[00:34:02] Joshua Punin: We're happy to be of service. What would you like us to help you with? Right? We unfortunately don't get that. We are not getting that. So, and I understand that and that's a reality of the situation. We need to dig deep, we need to do a lot more cross-checking. We need to do some more testing. We need to get samples, we need samples, we need information.
[00:34:21] Joshua Punin: I need data. I need spec sheets. I need as much information you can possibly give me. And even then, it's still not enough. Right. But I'm obviously, I'm, being cheeky. I'm embellishing that. Yeah. Cheeky yeah. In what I'm saying. But. But we get there. You know, if you've got patience, if you've got the result and patience, and that's why we are there to fast track it.
[00:34:45] Joshua Punin: That's why we're there is that conduit to make it work, to be the manufacturing consultant, agent, whatever you wanna call it, managing on the ground with you, holding the hand of the manufacturer and explain to them our experience. We understand how things work, so we accelerate that. That's why we can help companies who want to transition to manufacturing in India because we can give that extra.
[00:35:06] Joshua Punin: That service, that ability to provide what they need to make it happen. And we can cut through what we can and can't do. So if a company says, I wanna produce this in India, I'll say to them straight away, look, love to do it for you, not there yet.
[00:35:18] Azhelle Wade: Right. Or
[00:35:18] Joshua Punin: Yeah, absolutely. These are our options. Let's explore them.
[00:35:22] Joshua Punin: So we, everything's produced in China, cannot be produced in, India today. It doesn't, exist that way.
[00:35:27] Azhelle Wade: But let's say somebody has like a wooden toy product. Pretty simple. And say it took them, I don't know, let's say it took them like eight months to develop in China. Would you say they could probably develop it in the same timeframe, or should they just add on an extra, like four months or two months to start from scratch and develop it in India?
[00:35:43] Azhelle Wade: Just to give people an idea of if you wanna make this move pat on a little bit of extra time.
[00:35:48] Joshua Punin: I think always add extra time. I think extra time is always needed development, but in this scenario, I think eight months, nine months is very realistic in terms of development and that's what we're seeing.
[00:36:01] Joshua Punin: In terms of projects
[00:36:02] Azhelle Wade: and how complex are the projects? Like low complexity, like no mechanisms or high complexity? It's a doll with features and, you know,
[00:36:09] Joshua Punin: I've gone from simple to complex. It's maybe varies three months, could be three month variation. If it's very complex, maybe it's a 12 month project.
[00:36:17] Joshua Punin: Okay. It's very complex, which I've just, we're just completing now. we've, been involved in a, huge project in India that I think is gonna make a lot of news, in the next few months. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's gonna be really interesting to talk about. And, very exciting. But that's been a, the huge undertaking.
[00:36:34] Joshua Punin: So I think complex, probably 12 months. We've turned around stuff in about four months on some simpler projects. Okay. As well. So it can vary. It just, I think it varies. It varies on the manufacturer. Some manufacturers we're working with in India are very experienced in certain areas, and so we can turn around the prototyping and sampling very quickly compared to maybe another manufacturer who's still learning the ropes in a category.
[00:36:54] Joshua Punin: Who's growing, who's able to do it. But it's taking a bit longer because there's a bit of an education process with them. So this depends on which product you're making and which factories. 'cause there are multiple categories we can work in, and there are some that are much more experienced than others.
[00:37:06] Joshua Punin: Doesn't mean they're any less effective. Right. But they just, they need that push and education to make it work because the client wants to look at alternative manufacturing because now they're open because they need it, because they're interested in it. Just to throw a comment in here about, manufacturing and sourcing.
[00:37:24] Joshua Punin: I dunno if you're familiar with Walmart. They have a mandate actually on a corporate mandate on their website that states that 30% of their sourcing should come from India by 2027.
[00:37:36] Azhelle Wade: I did not, see that.
[00:37:36] Joshua Punin: We can actually Google it. You'll see there's a mandate and I think it's like $10 billion a year until 2027 or some, yeah.
[00:37:42] Joshua Punin: Huge figure in terms of their interest. I mean, that's a big deal. There's Vietnam, there's Mexico, but India is. Definitely the one they are touting is, where it's, quite important for them to have those building blocks, not just in toys, but obviously every category under the sun.
[00:37:56] Azhelle Wade: So tell me, if somebody really wants to work with Source for India, say they're a small, independent toy maker, can they afford your services?
[00:38:04] Azhelle Wade: Like, is it gonna add an astronomical amount to the. To their manufacturing costs to be working with you?
[00:38:10] Joshua Punin: Absolutely not. We are very transparent the way we work. Every client's got a different process and a different, we know we weigh it up. it's not one size fits all.
[00:38:19] Azhelle Wade: Okay.
[00:38:19] Joshua Punin: and we are open to working with anybody and everybody that wants to manufacture in India.
[00:38:24] Joshua Punin: Not just in toys but other categories as well. We are very, receptive and we'd love to talk to people because we're educating, you know, as much the first six months. When we started was educating companies on why India? Forget about making India. It's why, where is India at?
[00:38:38] Azhelle Wade: We'll do it right now.
[00:38:39] Azhelle Wade: Why? Why India? Tell us right now, Josh. Why India? Okay.
[00:38:42] Joshua Punin: Alright. Why India? India's got the largest youth workforce in the world. There are. Tax breaks and incentives for manufacturers across India, which means we have capacity to grow a manufacturing base and scale up very quickly, both in space and also labor force, skill, labor and low skill labor, both sides of it.
[00:39:03] Joshua Punin: We have no tax on exports. There are six. Regions in India where we can produce products that are close to the ports. That means we don't have a very large cost base of transport modes to the ports. So we have the infrastructure ready and built. We don't have Chinese New Year. We don't have a lot of the holidays.
[00:39:22] Azhelle Wade: They don't take vacations.
[00:39:24] Joshua Punin: They don't take the fisheries closed down for two, three days at best during the course of the year. Terrible. So bad, you know, so bad. Everybody has their holidays, but they just don't go as long. Okay. That's a perfect, so, you know, we have more time. We have more time to manufacture during the course of the year.
[00:39:40] Joshua Punin: Yeah. Okay. That's true. Which is a big, you know, which is a big, which is a big factor. I don't know. I can hear
[00:39:43] Azhelle Wade: like toy designers across the us like groaning. Like that's my one break. Like that's my one break in the year. Josh, I'm sorry. We're not,
[00:39:51] Joshua Punin: no breaks in it. We have no breaks. Do we Keep going. Day and night.
[00:39:54] Joshua Punin: Doesn't stop at source for India. Wow. Then we also have, I mentioned to you, freight rates and proximity that we have and the labor cost in India is one third toys are played with from the early days to the end. It's an industry where it requires a skill to make products that look great and, that's where China still has that efficiency.
[00:40:16] Azhelle Wade: Yes. And
[00:40:16] Joshua Punin: will always be a place, you know, remember when talking about alternative and additional manufacturing, we're not talking about replacing manufacturing. Okay. Let's be very clear. This is about companies diversifying. Then we can do the testing. Like the big factor in India is before, how do we do testing use?
[00:40:31] Joshua Punin: I was gonna go there next.
[00:40:32] Azhelle Wade: I was gonna go there next. Yeah. And people are probably listening worried like, yeah, but what happens about toy safety tests? Just general tests. Before I get into Walmart, before I get into all those big bucks retailers, and they're like, we can't do that in India, can we, Josh?
[00:40:43] Joshua Punin: Absolutely. We've got Intertech, we've got bv, we've got SGS, you know, we can test whatever you like. So if we are able to export to some major companies, which we're gonna be doing in 2022, into the US and into Europe, into Australia, into some parts of the Middle East, we have to meet all those requirements for domestics.
[00:41:01] Joshua Punin: One thing. Which is a massive market. And exports another. You need to meet them both.
[00:41:06] Azhelle Wade: This is fantastic. I am so excited for not only my listeners, but also the students of Toy Creators Academy because I have a feeling I'm gonna be connecting with you and connecting them with you more actively in years to come because I too.
[00:41:22] Azhelle Wade: I, yeah, I, know they would love to too. Anything else? Any, I feel like any other areas that maybe you are thinking that we didn't really touch on that you would love to share or anything coming up for the Indian market that you'd love to share?
[00:41:33] Joshua Punin: Yeah, a couple of things. firstly, there's gonna be some free trade agreements on the cards between India and some major countries in 2022.
[00:41:39] Joshua Punin: I think that's gonna make a difference. An impact
[00:41:42] Azhelle Wade: going, having a fridge.
[00:41:44] Joshua Punin: There's gonna be some free trade agreements completed in 2022, and I think that's gonna be a huge benefactor for both, you know, the countries that importing from India and also for India itself. So I think that's a big, change.
[00:41:55] Joshua Punin: India's got a lot of red tape in bureaucracy and I think that's all gonna start changing, fairly soon with these FDAs that are, coming. So I think that's a very exciting, I also think that we are going to be able to navigate more categories outside of. Traditional toys as well in India with a lot of factories in India that are moving away from auto automobile parts, but into other categories when I mean toy, like, I mean sporting goods.
[00:42:21] Azhelle Wade: And
[00:42:22] Joshua Punin: so other categories that are beyond just regular toys. And I think, you know, we need to be able to provide solutions, to a lot of, markets. There's very typical manufacturing in one or two countries. That exist and that don't exist in India. I mean, an example is helmets, bike helmets, and not really produced that much in India.
[00:42:39] Joshua Punin: Motorbike helmets are, but actually ri you know, bike helmets. So that's a huge opportunity I see for global markets.
[00:42:46] Azhelle Wade: Interesting.
[00:42:46] Joshua Punin: in, in 2022. And I also think that, once we open up travel, this is a big thing, once you open up to traveling and we can start moving around, which is soon, and I think the world will open up and start.
[00:42:57] Joshua Punin: Seeing India and visiting and I would welcome companies who wanna go visit India and see what they're doing in the factories and how they're doing it, and are open to working with companies like ourself and the factories and to educate. You know, there's a lot of education that needs to take place and we'll also see factories in China.
[00:43:14] Joshua Punin: I think also interested to take part in India because the domestic market, they wanna also achieve success in the domestic market. So it's not just closed. They wanna forge relationships. We've seen it in technology as well. There's been some forge relationships with manufacturers, with mobile phone companies.
[00:43:28] Joshua Punin: And then you've got the semiconductor chips, which I think will make a play in where the government's now gonna pour in billions of dollars to, to spearhead a semiconductor facility and to account for, hopefully, 10% of the world's, fabs by 2025 or 2026. Where they can make a play in that, in the fabrication of, semiconductor wafers.
[00:43:47] Joshua Punin: I think that's gonna be a big thing where we can become more self-sufficient for electronics. So electronics will be a big game changer in India as well in the coming years where everything can be completed locally. And my last Punint. Is that a lot of the SU people ask a question to us all the time, do you have the supply chain in India?
[00:44:04] Joshua Punin: Can we source everything locally? So that
[00:44:06] Azhelle Wade: was what I was gonna ask next, like raw materials. 'cause everyone's like, yeah, we wanna move outside of China, but all the raw materials are in China. So like, yeah. Okay. Go.
[00:44:14] Joshua Punin: I would say majority of the time, yes, a lot of the resins and plastics and wood and componentries, electronic componentry, a lot can be.
[00:44:26] Joshua Punin: done and is being done in India. but there are going to be things that we can't do, like IIC chips. It's from Taiwan, it's from China, you know, certain fabrics, synthetic fabrics we need from Taiwan or China. So there are things that we're going to need support still, and that may or may not change.
[00:44:41] Joshua Punin: And there's nothing wrong with that because, you know, we talked about a shipping cost difference. And sometimes sourcing the material through a third party works out cheaper than in-house anyway. So you really, you can, you'll find that there's a lot of moving parts. But if we can supply most of the things on the ground within India, we're doing really, well.
[00:44:59] Joshua Punin: And we're finding that we can, and we are. And we will do it this year for many products, particularly some more high tech products too.
[00:45:06] Azhelle Wade: Yeah.
[00:45:08] Joshua Punin: I think that's where those, but then again, as I said, there's also inefficiencies. So it's not like it's an absolute replacement, but it's definitely capable of doing a lot and a lot more what most people think because whatever thought they have on India or stigma might have with India, throw it out the window and rethink India.
[00:45:25] Joshua Punin: It's not what you think, and that's to everybody who's listening because there's still unfortunately a lot of old thoughts of the past of India of 10 years ago, 15 or 20 years ago. Okay, that is not the case today. New business, bone owners, new families, taking over factories, educated groups outside of India that are coming back to take efficiencies from outside inwards.
[00:45:47] Joshua Punin: It's a different story today.
[00:45:49] Azhelle Wade: Oh, so good. Thank you. Thank you, Josh. I think we're gonna have a lot of people calling source for India to this interview.
[00:45:56] Joshua Punin: I love to talk about India, and as I said, happy to talk about it and, we're open. You know, anytime you'd like me to talk about India, I'd be happy to do so.
[00:46:04] Joshua Punin: I'm almost feel like I'm a spokesman and I'm old, not from India. I feel like I've done so much speaking. I know the way you were talking country.
[00:46:11] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. The way you were talking, I was like. Did he convert? Like does he have like a dual citizenship? I don't know. yeah.
[00:46:16] Joshua Punin: Well actually I will say one thing.
[00:46:18] Joshua Punin: I do have roots in India. Oh. But I'm not. Yes I do. So that's another story for another time. Another time.
[00:46:25] Azhelle Wade: Thank you so much for being here
[00:46:26] Joshua Punin: today, Josh. That was a lot of fun. I'm so happy and thank you so much for having me on. I'm really privileged to have the time to talk to you and also to reach out to your listeners and, I look forward to, keeping in touch.
[00:46:38] Joshua Punin: Yes, me
[00:46:38] Azhelle Wade: too. Take care. Well, there you have it, toy people. My interview with Joshua Nan of source for India. I hope that this episode inspired you to look outside of China for manufacturing if you haven't already, and as Joshua said. We're not looking to replace those options in China entirely, but rather expand our opportunities and expand our bandwidth and capabilities to produce goods for various opportunities around the globe.
[00:47:10] Azhelle Wade: The biggest takeaway for me from this episode is that there are major retailers and toy companies out there that have. Public goals to move 30 to 60% of their manufacturing, of their toy products out of China and to someplace else, some of which have already specified India as the place they plan to move them to.
[00:47:36] Azhelle Wade: Now. Joshua invited you to reach out to him whether you are a small toy creator. Or a large toy company because he may be able to potentially help you find a new manufacturing partner. If you enjoy today's episode or if you just love this podcast in general and you haven't left a review yet. What are you waiting for?
[00:47:59] Azhelle Wade: I love seeing your reviews come through. I get an email notification whenever a new one is posted. It means the world to me and keeps me motivated to come back again and again bringing you valuable content from my personal experience or the experiences of my guests As always. Thank you so much for showing up here with me today.
[00:48:22] Azhelle Wade: I know there are a ton of podcasts out there, so it means the world to me that you tune into this one. Until next week, I'll see you later toy people.
[00:48:33] Voiceover: Thanks for listening to the Making It In The Toy Industry Podcast with Azhelle Wade. Head over to thetoycoach.com for more information, tips, and advice.
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