#276: TCA Accelerator Coaching Call with Joanna of Fren Forest
If you've ever wished you could sit in on a real coaching call inside Toy Creators Academy, today’s your lucky day. This episode is part of a special behind-the-scenes series where I bring you inside the TCA Accelerator for a one-on-one strategy session with Joanna, the creator of Fren Forest.
Joanna is a sculptural artist with a love for cozy characters, whimsical storytelling, and dreamy desk décor. She went from quietly crafting mini clay creatures in her studio to fully funding a collectible toy on Kickstarter and this episode walks you through exactly how she made that leap.
You’ll hear how Joanna turned her hand-sculpted characters into a collectible toy brand without a business degree or a marketing team. We’ll break down the smart moves that helped her hit 50% of her Kickstarter goal on day one, why she scrapped flocking to stay lean, and the tiny design detail she refused to give up (toe beans!). Plus, we’ll chat about balancing creativity with business, exploring licensing, and using small media wins to build big brand momentum.
Joanna’s journey is going to light a fire under your dreams and if you’ve been wondering whether Toy Creators Academy (or its Accelerator program!) can really help someone go from concept to collectible, this episode proves that with the right tools, guidance, and grit… your toy dream is possible.
Listen For These Important Moments
[00:03:50] - Learn what it really takes to go from selling handmade art online to launching a mass-produced collectible toy without wasting years (or your savings) on trial and error.
[00:08:30] - Got creative constraints? Hear how this artist built a clay-to-digital production workflow that worked with her medical needs and preserved the authenticity of her characters.
[00:10:04] - Discover how cutting one costly feature saved her budget and timeline plus the one tiny detail she refused to compromise on because her fans adored it.
[00:18:04] - Tired of juggling all the hats? This part of the episode explores how to shift from doing it all yourself to building a brand that licensing partners actually want.
[00:37:17] - Joanna plans to open pre-orders after Kickstarter fulfillment. Azhelle shares how many artists sell in focused bursts to protect their energy and keep creativity flowing.
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This episode is brought to you by www.thetoycoach.com
Want a little more cozy in your day? Explore Joanna’s charming world of collectible characters at Fren Forest and don’t miss your chance to grab a Bloop when pre-orders go live! Visit frenforest.com to follow the story and sign up for updates.
Ready to turn your toy idea into a real product? Toy Creators Academy gives you the tools, training, and support to make your idea happen. Enroll today at thetoycoach.com/tca
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[00:00:00] Azhelle Wade: You are listening to Making It in the Toy Industry, episode number 276.
Welcome to Making It in the Toy Industry, a podcast for inventors, entrepreneurs, and makers like you. And now your host, Azhelle Wade.
[00:00:22] Azhelle Wade: Hey there, toy people. Azhelle Wade here, and welcome back to another episode of Making It in the Toy Industry. This is a weekly podcast brought to you by thetoycoach.com. My guest today is Joanna Cotton, a sculptural artist aspiring to craft cozy fantasy world into our reality through cozy characters and capturing their silly little adventures with toy design and miniature photography.
[00:00:47] Azhelle Wade: If you are an artist or a storyteller who dreams of turning your creations into collectible toys, this is the episode for you today. We're interviewing a student from the Toy Creators Academy Accelerator Program, who turned her personal design of her characters and clay sculpting talent into a fully funded Kickstarter campaign for her new toy made out of those characters.
[00:01:09] Azhelle Wade: This episode is going to be part of our special coaching series where I sit down with students to talk about real challenges they're working on right now, and to celebrate their progress and share their toys with you. They're going to be pitching their product to you at the end, our amazing group of toy people, and I'm just so excited to get started.
[00:01:25]Azhelle Wade: Joanna, welcome to the show.
[00:01:28] Joanna Cotton: Hello. Thank you so much for the lovely introduction and thank you for having me.
[00:01:32] Azhelle Wade: I am so excited to have you on the show. I mean, this is a long time coming and I'm so proud of you for your Kickstarter campaign. How does it feel?
[00:01:40] Joanna Cotton: Oh, it's still kind of surreal after being so kind of overwhelmed with all of the prep work for months. It's amazing to finally have it finished and done and the funds are going to hit my account at some point, so that'll be great. We can get started on making the product.
[00:01:55] Azhelle Wade: Quick overview question for you. Did you feel like you actually checked off all the boxes on that huge to-do list that you had for the Kickstarter campaign?
[00:02:05] Joanna Cotton: There was a point where I realized there were certain things that I was just going to have to do after the campaign. Like I wanted to get a source of an idea of how logistics of shipping and everything was going to work, so I knew I was costing correctly. But there were some things where I was like, I just need to wait until I've actually got the funding for the project before I worry about this. But yeah, I managed to hit all of the major milestones on my to-do list that I wanted to have done before launching. So, yeah, it went well.
[00:02:34] Azhelle Wade: That is fantastic. I also have to say, because you are not the typical personality someone would expect to run something like this, because like, you're an artist. Like you're primarily an artist. And would you say you're like an introvert? Somewhat of an introvert? Yes. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, like you're an artist and an introvert, and literally this whole Kickstarter campaign is like Lisa Ferland, who we'll talk about a little bit when we get into this, who worked with me and you to help you prepare for the Kickstarter campaign. We talked about how you have to like, get out there and constantly talk about your brand and talk about your campaign, and that just wasn't you, but you did it.
[00:03:08] Joanna Cotton: Yeah, it's very intense with the amount of kind of promotion you have to do. You constantly have to be shoving it in people's faces that it's happening. It was full on for a couple weeks, but I got through it.
[00:03:17] Azhelle Wade: And I loved seeing when the video came out with you actually in the video holding your character. Oh, I was so happy because I was like, "Oh, she never shows her face." I love it. It's so great, so great. Okay.
[00:03:27] Joanna Cotton: Yeah, it was a lot.
[00:03:28] Azhelle Wade: Well, let's get into the format of this episode. We're going to start with part one, we'll do our coaching session. If there's anything else you want to talk about, we'll break through that. And then part two, we'll talk more about your campaign, celebrate your wins in progress. So first question I want to ask you, what was going on in your life when you decided that you wanted to join, not just Toy Creators Academy, but you wanted to go back for the Accelerator? Why did you think that was the right move?
[00:03:52] Joanna Cotton: Yeah. Well, before I joined, I was mostly doing artwork and selling it kind of through my online store. I was making a lot of nerdy kind of merchandise and selling it in different like fandoms that I was a part of. And I was looking at figures that were being made and mass produced and thinking, "Well, my artwork looks like what these figures that are kind of reaching a huge audience, they look the same." So how can I go from making clay models one at a time to being able to just sculpt the design and really care about creating the character and then have somebody else mass produce it for me?
And so that was really where I was kind of at, and I realized the amount of money it was going to take me to figure out through trial and error that process of taking things into mass production. Because I didn't have a clue how factories worked or how you would find one or contact one. The amount of money it would take to kind of navigate that process and then learn from mistakes. Toy Creators Academy was probably a lot cheaper than coming through all of the errors, and you just presented all of the information I needed with no need for me to take like a year or two of just failing to learn how to do all of this stuff.
[00:05:03] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. Oh, I love that. Thank you so much. And I actually am really curious, selfishly, I want to hear, like, Toy Creators Academy is a little bit self-led, and even when there is a live cohort where we're meeting every week, it's still very much like you have to drive yourself to go through the material. Whereas the Accelerator was more like we were meeting every month, and then you were telling me where you were at, and I was like, "Oh, well, you need this specific thing from the course, or let me make this specific introduction for you." So did you know that the Accelerator was going to be that different, or what were you expecting and what actually happened from the Accelerator versus the regular program?
[00:05:40] Joanna Cotton: The Accelerator was great because it meant that I was able to keep working on what I was doing rather than waiting for like the monthly calls. Your Toy Creators program is great in the fact that we have the Facebook group so we can go and talk to other people and say like, "Has anyone got any experience with this particular issue?"
[00:05:56] Azhelle Wade: Yeah.
[00:05:57] Joanna Cotton: But in terms of just having access to contacting you, I could like send you an email and say, "This is what my factory sent me. I don't understand what they're talking about." And you could say, "This is what they mean. This is the question you need to be asking, or like, this is the memo that you're not getting right now." And just having that immediacy of communication of being able to take the next step rather than wait and have to like wait for the monthly call to clarify things. That was a huge asset and being able to get through what I was doing quicker.
[00:06:28] Azhelle Wade: In the age of AI, what makes you want to email me and not like jump on a chatbot or something and ask them that question? When you said that, I'm wondering, I'm like, I love that she wants to talk to me, but why me over like any chatbot?
[00:06:43] Joanna Cotton: Because AI can just make up the answer, whereas you've actually got like the real industry experience and the know-how and just like, the nuances of like what's actually going on behind the scenes, you understand the pipelines of like toy production. Whereas AI, I can ask it a question and it will draw from a bunch of websites and compile what it thinks is the correct answer, and it will very confidently tell me it's the correct answer, but it isn't always the correct answer.
[00:07:11] Azhelle Wade: Oh, you just inspired an idea for like a podcast, like now business owners have to have confidence of AI. Like you have to deliver the information with the confidence of AI, or people are going to not believe it just because you don't have the confidence of AI. That's so interesting. That's so interesting how it does deliver wrong information confidently.
[00:07:30] Joanna Cotton: It does. As someone who's very introverted, if you give me a confident statement, I will trust that you have the authority to know what you're talking about. But AI doesn't. It is just making it up as it goes.
[00:07:41] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. One time I put something into it and it gave me something wrong and I was like, "That's not true." And it was like, "Oh, you're right. That isn't true." And I was like, "Well, I'm sorry, sir. What was that?" So I guess what shifted your mindset was just having that support and help that mindset from like, "I don't know where to get started," to like, "I can actually, I can really do this." But you tell me. What was the moment where you thought, "I have no idea how to contact factories. I don't think this is a realistic thing. I don't think I can afford this," to, "Oh, maybe I can do this"?
[00:08:09] Joanna Cotton: It really was just getting into the program and understanding the process of how things kind of work in like a more typical production workflow, but then also just learning from the other people in the program and getting to realize that there are other avenues and different pathways and different ways to do different things, and there's not like one set way to go about it. I went with a more typical steel injection mold sort of workflow, but I took my characters and scanned them into the digital like format. So I physically sculpted with clay, and then I wanted to get them replicated exactly in the computer. So it was my characters and my designs being created. But due to medical issues, I can't use a computer for that amount of time to be doing like digital sculpting. So it was really just seeing lots of different experiences and lots of different perspectives on how to tackle different problems that made me think, "Okay, I can find a workflow here that kind of works around what I want to be doing."
[00:09:09] Azhelle Wade: I love that. I love that you don't give up. It's so hard to find people that just will power through. But I guess it's the support that there were days where you were messaging me and you were like, "I don't know." Remember the flock incident? Okay. So Joanna had developed this character and his name is Bloop, and he's a cute bear, he's adorable. And when she made him with a factory, she wanted to flock him so that he would be fuzzy and just. The sampling process of the flocking was so challenging. The last challenge that broke the camel's back was when we couldn't see the final colorway until we approved for production. Yeah. And Joanna, honestly, you made this call before me. Normally I would be the one to make this call to a student, but Joanna was like, "I'm not going to do flocking." I was scared. I was like, "Oh no. Are the fans going to be okay?" But I would love you to talk a little bit about the research you did to your fans where you found out they didn't really care about the flocking, and if anything, it might make things worse.
[00:10:04] Joanna Cotton: Yeah. I was really worried at the start that perhaps I needed my hand-sculpted designs to be somewhat more professional, like a bit more sleek and a bit more touched up. And at the start, I didn't think it would be possible for me to scan my work into the computer. I thought I was going to have to work through a digital sculptor and kind of guide them to replicate my characters. So I thought, "How can I make the toys different from my sort of more handcrafted world?" And I thought, "Okay, well I'll get all the toys flocked so that it looks like they're fuzzy when they actually exist in our world as opposed to their little universe." But it just got to the point where flocking would've been possible, but the costs of prototyping and the risks I'd be taking like investing in molding before I fully understood what was going on or what the final product was going to be like. I just realized flocking can be something down the line if I want to revisit it, but right now it's not going to be working. So we scrapped the idea and everything got easier after that.
[00:11:05] Azhelle Wade: It did get so much easier. We spent months on flocking. But there was also a comment that your fans made about flocking. Do you remember it? Because I do.
[00:11:15] Joanna Cotton: Oh, yeah. There is a subset of kind of people that collect the same sort of figures who will just adamantly not collect anything that's flocked because they get dusty over time. And if you don't care for them, like, I'm honestly terrible with my maintenance of like dusting all of my figures. But if you don't care for them, they will get dusty and they will get grimy and it's not pretty to look at anymore if you neglect them. So even though they're really nice to touch and they look really cute and they're clean, if you leave them on a shelf for a month, you'll like do a double take. Yeah.
[00:11:46] Azhelle Wade: And then it's not representing your brand anymore that well. Right. But I would say like, okay, so Joanna gave up the tactile feel of touching Bloop with the flocking, but you would not give up on the toe beans. Even though I was like, Joanna, I was like, "I don't know. This is very small. I don't think we can do the toe beans." You were adamant about these toe beans.
[00:12:06] Joanna Cotton: And the funny thing is, is that like a week or two after we finally got them on the model and they were working, they were approved, they were going ahead, Animal Crossing released some new plushies and the entire internet was freaking out because these plushies had toe beans. And I'm like, "Yes, this is the vision. I was telling everyone this was important." It's a selling point.
[00:12:28] Azhelle Wade: Oh, that's so awesome. Oh, that's so cool. You were so right. I mean, and the factory like didn't understand it. I remember I was like, like I had to keep giving you words. I was like, "Tell them this." Like, I don't remember what it was. It was like, "Tell them it's inset. Tell them it's locked." I was like, "Illustrate it like this." Like they didn't understand. Right. They were like, "Yeah."
[00:12:45] Joanna Cotton: Yeah. Eventually, I ended up sculpting exactly what I wanted it to look like and I sent them a video of me like turning it around in my hands. That sense, just the foot and like so they could see, because it needed to be flat on the bottom so that the figure did a wobble when it was standing. And just the recessed kind of like outline of the toe beans. Yes. But we got there in the end. Yeah.
[00:13:04] Azhelle Wade: You did. And you highlighted on your Kickstarter video. I mean, you and Samantha, just a plus, plus, plus toy creators. Like, just incredible. Like, you are just amazing. So I know I often talk about toy paths in this industry. Which toy path are you currently on? Inventor, entrepreneur, executive?
[00:13:24] Joanna Cotton: Yeah. Very much kind of on the entrepreneur path at the moment, but I think I do want to lean more towards inventor, but not in the more kind of classical sense as just coming up with ideas. But I want to be creating my characters and creating the designs and all of that, and possibly figure out some sort of way to be licensing to someone that can make the toys. Because after going through this experience, juggling so many hats, I mean, I haven't sculpted anything in weeks. I just want to make. I want to make more cute animals. So yeah, to, yeah.
[00:13:56] Azhelle Wade: The entrepreneur life in the toy industry. You have to, you make like one product and then that's all you do is market it, right?
[00:14:03] Joanna Cotton: Yeah, that's it. So at the moment, I'm in the entrepreneur seat, but long-term, I very much want to shift into that inventor role and find some way of licensing out my characters so someone else can go and make the toy and I can just make the designs and the collections.
[00:14:17] Azhelle Wade: So anyone listening, like the Fren Forest brand is potentially up for licensing. So.
[00:14:23] Joanna Cotton: If you are interested, if you're looking for collectible toys, I am very eager to design all of them. Yes.
[00:14:29] Azhelle Wade: And she's a very engaged audience, so, and growing. Yeah. So now give us your elevator pitch for Fren Forest. How would you describe it if you had just a 30-second elevator ride with someone?
[00:14:39] Joanna Cotton: Well, I think Fren Forest is a safe and comfy little world of animal friends who find joy in silly adventures and everyday moments. They cherish kindness and nature, and each character has their own hobbies and their own story. But I wanted to start with Bloop there because they really embody beautiful love of life. And they're very present and they're in the moment, so it's a perfect companion for anyone that struggles with anxiety. And I really wanted to create collectible toys that look like they're interacting with the environment, so they don't just look good on a shelf, but you can have them around your desk and around your space, and they just bring comfort and coziness to your day.
[00:15:19] Azhelle Wade: How many characters are in the Fren Forest world right now?
[00:15:23] Joanna Cotton: Oh, I think technically eight. They're not all super prominent on social media. Bloop has been hogging the social media page for months. What's the name of the Fox friend? Oh, that's Fred. Yeah, that's where the name Fren Forest comes from.
[00:15:40] Azhelle Wade: Oh, cute. What has been the most challenging part of launching this character brand as a toy brand?
[00:15:47] Joanna Cotton: Probably just figuring out how I'm going to navigate toy production because toy production is such a big industry as a whole.
[00:15:57] Azhelle Wade: Yeah.
[00:15:57] Joanna Cotton: And brand building is almost an entirely different beast of a full-time job.
[00:16:03] Azhelle Wade: Yes. Yes, that. Well, this leads to the next question. If you could instantly just snap your fingers and fix one thing in your business or perfect one thing in your business, what would it be?
[00:16:14] Joanna Cotton: I would magic up a 3D printer that can print in full color, smooth prints, and that would just fix all of my problems really, because then I can sculpt the characters. I can scan them into the computer and print a million of them, and that would just be wonderful.
[00:16:32] Azhelle Wade: Did you hear my 3D episode with S. Lobo Toys?
[00:16:36] Joanna Cotton: Yeah, that was fantastic. It was really interesting and it came out at just the perfect time because I was kind of in a moment of thinking, "How is this going to be manageable long term?" I really think in a couple of years, 3D printing is just going to keep getting better and better.
[00:16:49] Azhelle Wade: Agreed. To the point where eventually I will just be able to print what I can design.
[00:16:54] Azhelle Wade: I know. I feel the same way, and I'm like, this is now the time that I should jump in and just like buy one and play with it just to not have to start from the beginning once it is ready to do mass production.
[00:17:05] Joanna Cotton: At the moment, they're so finicky to coordinate and to set up and if you want smooth prints, you really need to be looking at resin, which is just a whole other set of problems. Like my brain cannot tolerate resin, and it gives me horrible headaches. So I'm, yeah, I was going to say, the smell would be terrible. I am not built for that sort of production.
[00:17:26] Azhelle Wade: You need the filament option to be smooth print. Oof.
[00:17:30] Joanna Cotton: Yeah. So I'm waiting for technology to catch up.
[00:17:32] Azhelle Wade: To catch up. Yeah. AI should be solving that problem. Why don't we? Exactly.
[00:17:37] Joanna Cotton: Stop replacing the artists and start building technology for us. Seriously.
[00:17:40] Azhelle Wade: Seriously. So that we can produce our art. Yeah. What do you think your next move should be with Fren Forest?
[00:17:46] Joanna Cotton: I think logically the smart move would be creating, like starting to do series or collections of toys and thinking about how I can be making it into a collectible toy by having multiple. But really I want to look at finding or starting conversations around licensing.
[00:18:04] Azhelle Wade: Okay. And, um.
[00:18:05] Joanna Cotton: Figuring out how I can set myself up as the designer of the brand. And possibly look at working with someone who can be making the toys and doing the marketing. Similar to like.
[00:18:18] Azhelle Wade: I love that.
[00:18:19] Joanna Cotton: Bigger brands of collectible figures. Like you did a podcast episode recently on the Labubu.
[00:18:24] Azhelle Wade: Yeah.
[00:18:25] Joanna Cotton: The artist that's designing those toys is probably having a wonderful time right now.
[00:18:29] Azhelle Wade: A hundred percent. Yeah. They're.
[00:18:30] Joanna Cotton: They're just creating their character, making new ideas, making new concepts. There's like this Wacky Mart Labubu collection that's just coming out where it's all themed around various grocery like things, and it's adorable. It's wonderful. I'm just thinking the artist must have had so much fun creating all of these concepts. They send it to Pop Mart and Pop Mart's like, "Brilliant. We'll make a million and sell them all."
[00:18:54] Azhelle Wade: Yeah, yeah. So have you been feeling stuck with this new goal, or how have you been feeling with this new goal?
[00:19:00] Joanna Cotton: Where I've been feeling most stuck, I think, is really just around how I could potentially manage all of the spinning plates of running a business. And that's really holding me up because I have all of these ideas for designs and collections and toys, and the difficulty has been kind of navigating the logistics of all of the other components that come into running a business. And like the tariffs a couple months ago, which is crazy to say, that was a couple months ago that like sent me into a complete spiral of like, "How am I meant to be able to manage all of these logistics? Like how am I meant to manage getting all of this product onto a boat, getting it shipped, getting it imported, getting all of the customs correct, all of the duties paid, all of that set up and navigated and making sure that I'm doing it all correctly?" Because if I do it wrong, I'm not going to figure out that it was wrong until like customs throw out my shipment and say, "Nevermind, you didn't fill out the customs correctly." And I, the only reason I didn't do that was because nobody told me how to do it correctly.
[00:20:02] Azhelle Wade: Right, right, right, right, right.
[00:20:03] Joanna Cotton: So it's sometimes you don't even know what you're not worrying about. Right, which is scary.
[00:20:07] Azhelle Wade: I do have to say, with customs, with barcodes, I have found ChatGPT to actually be quite helpful in catching holes. I have a professional account, so supposedly my information's not being used to train the model, who knows? But when I have to fill out a form like that, and I'm not a hundred percent sure, like the form has changed. I don't know what this means or that means, or the tariffs have changed, and I don't know, like, how it's going to affect me or when or my clients. I have been throwing everything in there and just being like, "Can you just check this? Can you just tell me, am I missing something? What does this mean? What does that mean?" And I would for these things, don't put all that weight on you because like I would say the one good thing I think about ChatGPT is for independent business owners, there are things that it can take off of our shoulders. Like you can have it compile data for you. Like when I have customer data, like anonymous surveys about my services or whatever, I'll put that into ChatGPT and be like, "What's like the overarching theme here? What's something I need to fix? What's something that I'm really good at?" And not having to read through and like adjust through all that data is so helpful. When you're one-woman show, you're one-person show, like you can't do it all and now you don't really have to. So like, you know, there are some things I definitely think if you're feeling like really overwhelmed and it's also a thing where, you know, it's very technical and you can't mess this up. I would introduce AI to try to help you go through it because it's been very helpful for me.
[00:21:32] Joanna Cotton: Yeah. I think sorting through data especially is going to be one of the best uses for AI going forward.
[00:21:39] Azhelle Wade: A hundred percent. Yeah, a hundred percent. It takes seconds. It's incredible. So the licensing piece, number one thing you need to do is like build your notoriety for your brand before anybody's going to want to license your brand, they're going to say, "How big of a following does it have? What is the benefit of me creating a product with it?" I did an interview with Anita Cast, who is a licensing rep, and definitely we should put you in contact with her after this. Maybe you're at the stage where she can help you license out your brand. Maybe she might say, "Grow a little bit more, and we'll talk in the future." But in my interview with her, I'll send you the link to it. We talked about how even small brands like yours can benefit from licensing deals. So like there's someone like you, and then say there's someone who has a small arts and crafts company. And small meaning they generate $10,000 a month. They're paying their bills with this small arts and crafts company, but it's not like their life isn't changed yet. But then they meet you and then you say, "Hey, like I would love for you to make a Fren Forest arts and crafts kit." And they say, "Oh, that would be great." And then you agree, come to some agreement of 30, 40% share of royalties when they get to use your name. And then you get to promote to your list. Like we have this arts and crafts product coming out. And this company that makes these arts and crafts is going to be applying our characters to their arts and crafts. And you won't have to do that production, but they will be so used to creating, I don't know, brush sets and things that they don't have to re-engineer anything. They're just applying your new characters. So there could be an opportunity for two, like a mid-size and then your business or a small, and then your business to partner to start your licensing path, which it won't be life-changing at first. It won't be like new characters at first. But if you can build up your portfolio, like starting with maybe arts and crafts, starting, maybe apparel, starting stationary is always a good place to start. Then you can eventually grow back into that toy category. So that's my thought for you.
[00:23:34] Joanna Cotton: Yeah, that will make sense. Yeah.
[00:23:36] Azhelle Wade: Those people that get the deals with Pop Mart. I am so curious what those licensing deals are and if they're licensing deals or if they are outright buys. And it sounds like it's more becoming a famous artist in like the art world scene. In the art scene.
[00:23:52] Joanna Cotton: Yeah. There was a recent pop-up store in London that I wasn't able to go to, but I wanted to where, um, they were doing a Hirono show and they had like all of the figures laid out. They had like some huge ones made for like the big promotional pieces, and then they had the artist coming in and like signing things throughout the week. It was a big deal and I think it is more of that collaboration, whereas Pop Mart are there wanting to, they have the funds and the company and the notoriety to be selling all these figures. Yeah. They just seem to really want to be working with people that want to create universes and like the characters that have stories behind them and the collections that make sense and really carry the brand. Because people care about the brand as opposed to just buying a generic figure. You can buy a generic figure on Temu for like 99 cents. But people want to be buying like the characters that they feel represent what they identify within the brand.
[00:24:50] Azhelle Wade: I feel like if you can get some more media attention around your brand, that would help you draw some attention from potential licensing partners. So I don't know if you've gotten to the part, probably not, you're busy, but with TCA, there is like the media section that was talking about how I launched my business with media placements. It's a harder now because more and more people have learned to do it. But it's really about finding like the headline for you. So for me it was like, "Former Toys R Us executive helps people launch their toy ideas." Like that's like the headline that like when I pitched to media like, "Do you want to do a story about this?" And they're like, "Oh, that's perfect. That sounds like something we've never done before." So for you, figuring out what that headline is.
[00:25:35] Azhelle Wade: Yeah, go for it. I think with.
[00:25:35] Joanna Cotton: The rise of AI, I think I underestimated initially kind of how much people were going to appreciate the hand-sculpted nature of my designs, because people seem to really enjoy that, that they can, they can see that someone's really carefully cultivated these designs by hand.
[00:25:52] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. Oh, I love that. Hand sculpting UK artist launches toy line, or I feel like there might be an angle to lean into like the cozy friends that like will help you. Basically the chaos of the world right now and then the cozy nature of Fren Forest and like a media line that's something about this cozy toy line is helping Gen Z'ers relax from the chaos of the world, or this cozy toy line, which.
[00:26:19] Joanna Cotton: Isn't far fetched. Right?
[00:26:20] Azhelle Wade: No, it's not at all. Is Gen Z's escape? Or, or like meet the latest cozy toy line that'll help you escape the whatever the chaos of today. So basically when I first started, I started with really small podcasts and I would be pitching these headlines and then I eventually did hire somebody to help me pitch these headlines, but I would be pitching these headlines and pitching like mini stories to go with it. So I'd say, you know, that headline idea, like, "Cozy Toy Line helps people avoid blah blah blah." And then I would say, "The world is crazy right now. People need something to make them relax. I'd love to come on your podcast and talk about how these cozy characters came to life from hand sculpting to factory production, and teach your listeners about how they can make their dreams happen even in economic hard times," or something. Something. I feel like don't underestimate the power of media to help your brand grow really, really fast. So I feel like when you have a moment to breathe after you send out your Bloops, maybe focusing on like getting media, especially when we hit Q4 and everyone's going to be talking about toys.
[00:27:25] Joanna Cotton: Yeah. I'll have to do a deep dive into that module.
[00:27:27] Azhelle Wade: It's fun, ish. It's like.
[00:27:29] Joanna Cotton: Depends on how you feel about marketing, I suppose.
[00:27:32] Azhelle Wade: Well, well, what's good about these things is like you don't have to market yourself. It's more like you are trying to make friends with people that run podcasts. To start, I started with podcasts, but you might do YouTube channels. I mean, you have your whole other community that you might reach out to, like your cozy community, but they market for you. That's what's the best part about it. Like you just have to come in and be entertaining and like show your cute Bloop and explain all your stories and teach a little something and then they market it. And that's the best part. Like for me, it was like just this, this, I don't know, like this big rolling, growing wheel of media that started on this teeny tiny podcast with a super introverted girl who is so sweet and ended on like the History Channel. So it's like you never know like where it's going to go. So like, I don't know, just. Start with the teeny tiny podcast with like. Yeah. 20 listens. So if, if you could solve a problem today, what would you want to focus on?
[00:28:30] Joanna Cotton: I think it would be just figuring out whether or not I need to be pitching myself as a brand or more as an artist. Because like you say, with how people are like collaborating with Pop Mart and like companies like Finding Unicorn and these other toy collectors, I don't know how it's best to pitch myself. I feel like I've got this like feather in my cap now that I've done a Kickstarter, so I can say people funded this project. People are interested in these characters. Like we've literally crowdfunded this first run of a figure. So, but I don't know whether to position myself as more of the artist or whether I'm positioning the brand first and foremost.
[00:29:07] Azhelle Wade: Ah. That's why I just have to do one or the other. I mean, you are the artist, and then the brand already lives on its own, and you never put your face on there anyway. It's not one or the other. It's, maybe it's which one do you focus on first, though?
[00:29:20] Joanna Cotton: Hmm.
[00:29:20] Azhelle Wade: That might be a question. I mean, I would say your Kickstarter and your emails. Oh, your emails are so great. We didn't even talk about, your emails have really built up your personality. So I would say it seems right to continue leaning into that personality. But if you do, just make sure you're leaning in the right spaces. Like I would see if you can use the success of your Kickstarter, the success of getting on this podcast, and whatever, you know, whatever else, to see if you can get like an informational interview or chat with someone that has worked with Pop Mart or one of the other companies you want to work with. If you can chat with one of those artists, it's not that you need a favor from them, but you need to understand the roadmap. Because I'm, I'm not part of that world. I don't know how they go about it, but there might be like, maybe there's someone you need to meet. Maybe there's a place you need to be. Maybe there's a certain, but like, you're not going to know until you talk to someone who's been there. Yeah. So even if you could find like the least popular plush line or collectible line that someone's done and then, and talk to that artist. Like even if it's like you just want someone who's gotten in. Right.
[00:30:26] Joanna Cotton: Yeah. No, that makes sense. It's been a bit difficult with the language barrier because a lot of these companies are Japanese, based in either Japan or China. And I don't know why, but for some reason, like the Western space, a lot of their companies, the bigger toy companies just aren't focusing on the adult market, which is crazy to me because like the collectible space is huge revenue for China and Japan especially. Yeah. And it's becoming so prevalent in countries like America and here in the UK. Yeah. The big companies like Hasbro and Mattel, like, "What are you guys doing? You need to get on this."
[00:31:03] Azhelle Wade: I mean, I think they definitely are starting to work with adult, but they're not doing it in the same way. I don't, they're not leaning on artists like that. No, not at all. But there's such a cultural difference, like in Japan. Like it's a little bit more community. It's so much more community focused. So I wonder if that's part of the issue where a company's not going to immediately start a line with, "Yes, we're going to be giving away part of our shares or part of our sales and profit to this random artist." Like they don't even want to begin walking down that road. So maybe that's what it is. But yeah, Hasbro has the Hasbro Pulse. Have you heard of that? It's essentially, they're like Kickstarter. They'll launch random things that their fans ask for on this Hasbro Pulse site, and that's like a whole separate product and site.
[00:31:47] Azhelle Wade: So I know we've been chatting about like what to do and where your brand could go, but what is a win that you've had in the past month where you're like, "Wow, I actually did that?"
[00:31:57] Joanna Cotton: It was the moment when I pressed end on the Kickstarter, and we had the funding and like it was real because I think until it closed, I was just kind of sat there in disbelief that we got the funding. So yeah, just realizing that I actually launched and successfully funded a Kickstarter.
[00:32:19] Azhelle Wade: And what happened in your first 24 hours of launching your Kickstarter? How much did you fund?
[00:32:22] Joanna Cotton: I don't know. I think I've blacked it out from my memory.
[00:32:27] Azhelle Wade: Well, good thing you sent Lisa and I a very detailed email, so you can read that back. I'm pretty sure. Didn't you get like 50% funded in like the first day?
[00:32:36] Joanna Cotton: Yeah. Yeah. A good sign is to get like a huge amount of funding on the first day. So I thought, "Okay, so if we're in a good place at the end of the first day, then I can feel confident going forward." And yeah, we hit something like 50 or 60% funded on the first day. Ridiculous. So it was just crazy. I think we reached like a thousand pounds in like the first 15 minutes. Wow.
[00:32:57] Azhelle Wade: Do you remember the email you sent to hit that?
[00:32:59] Joanna Cotton: I sent an email a couple days before we launched. I can't remember whether it was five or three days. And then I sent an email the day of launch that was based on recommendation by Lisa. Yeah. And she suggested to launch early in the day so that you have like the full first day of funding.
[00:33:18] Azhelle Wade: Yes. Yes, yes, yes.
[00:33:18] Joanna Cotton: Um, and, and yeah, I just kind of blasted it across social media and I, I think I said in my post, "If you've ever considered sharing a post, please consider sharing this one." Oh, and it worked. It got like loads of attention really, and so many people reached out. Even people that weren't able to financially support the project or lived in a shipping region that I couldn't ship to were just like so supportive and so excited to say congratulations. Like, "Oh my God, this is amazing." So, yeah, it was a big day.
[00:33:49] Azhelle Wade: Oh, I'm so happy for you. I love, I love when people celebrate things other than like getting married and having kids. I just love, I just love it whenever someone launches a business and a product and you get the support of like, I love that. That's just, yeah. Love it. I also want to commend you because not only did you remove the flocking at your own decision, and you also insisted on your toe beans, you also insisted on your price. Even against Lisa and myself. Lisa and I were like, "I don't know, Joanna, this is, we were like, this is too cheap. We think it must be more expensive." But you didn't insist blindly. You didn't just insist like, "No, this is the price I want to have." You insisted and then surveyed your audience again and again to make sure that you were giving the right price that they could afford, that you could afford, that would make sense for the line. And once you launched and 50% funded in a day, I was like, "Oh, she was right about the price." That's what I thought.
[00:34:43] Joanna Cotton: So what, it was such a struggle. Yeah. That. Yeah. It's complicated because obviously if you send someone to Pop Mart, they can buy the same sort of toy for about like half the price. But obviously if I was sculpting something by hand and you were getting the original, then that would be a hundred plus. So, so I'm kind of taking into account the toy itself on a mass market would be cheaper, but in order for me to go through this process of making this first edition figure, this limited edition run, and getting the molding and sort of compensating myself for all of the work and sculpting, I wouldn't have been able to set my price at that price point if it hadn't been for me being the artist. If I'd had to hire an artist to design Bloop, that would've been such a huge additional expense that I think unless I was able to contribute by fulfilling some other role, that took up a lot of expense. I don't know what that would be because I did a lot of the project. But, um, yeah, being able to be the artist myself. So even if you're not an artist, if you're developing a product, do as much prototyping as you can yourself and save that money. You can figure out all of the complications. Like I've heard from people that have launched Kickstarters who come from like a tech background and they did all of the technology they built. Like this super futuristic coffee machine that can do weird and wonderful things because they had the knowledge to create that. I don't, I would've had to have hired someone to figure that out. But, so yeah, being able to do the art myself was a big, a big help in being able to stick to that lower price point.
[00:36:21] Azhelle Wade: Love it. Okay, let's spotlight on your product. Finally. Where can people purchase Bloop Bear? Where can they engage with Fren Forest and what, what makes it so special? This world?
[00:36:33] Joanna Cotton: Uh, well, you can find Fren Forest on Instagram and I do a lot of toy photography and kind of world building over there. That is really just my greatest joy. Just bringing this world to life and telling the little stories and developing the characters and really creating this little safe world. And so you can, you can find and follow along the adventures there. You can find me on frenforest.com if you want to reach out. And I will be launching a pre-order store for Bloop at some point in the future, hopefully soon. So anyone that missed out on the Kickstarter who wants to get a little Bloop for their desk and have him as a little desk helper, you can pre-order him. And those will be fulfilled probably sometime early 2026 after I've done all of the Kickstarter fulfillment. So, yeah.
[00:37:18] Azhelle Wade: You are reminding me of what the last bit of advice I wanted to give. Earlier you had mentioned that, you know, how am I supposed to manage all these things on an ongoing basis? And I was going to say, what it sounds like you're alluding to is a lot of artists tend to do these drop business models where it's not available all year round, and then they just drop the product like 500 units. A thousand units at a time so that you are essentially launching two or three times a year and then that's it. And you're not doing sales year round. So I don't know if that's something you're planning on doing, but it sounds a little bit like you are.
[00:37:52] Joanna Cotton: Yeah, it was. I think that's kind of how you manage if you are not attached to a big company like Pop Mart. Yeah. Because you need to be able to take seasons off while you're developing new product. Yes. And then you sell the product and then you go back to developing. So you kind of go into like hibernation mode offline for a little while.
[00:38:09] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, great. That sounds great. Where did the idea of a Fren Forest come from?
[00:38:13] Joanna Cotton: Oh, it's very much inspired by my love of Animal Crossing, of Studio Ghibli, Winnie the Pooh, all of those sorts of cozy worlds. But in 2019, I lost my Labrador very suddenly. Oh. And she'd been my baby since I was, I think I was 12 when I got her. Oh no. So it was hard. And she'd been with me through thick and thin and all of school and all of a lot of life stuff, and I missed having her because no matter what I was going through, no matter how well I was dealing with it, she would just be happy to see me. She would just. Company, she would not judge. She would not do, she would just accept me as I was in that moment, no. And so after losing her, I started doodling these little characters and they eventually turned into Fren Forest. So just wanting to create this cozy, safe world of characters that are just happy to enjoy quiet company, silly little adventures, and just everyday kind of joy of just being in the moment. Yeah, so that's where it came from.
[00:39:30] Azhelle Wade: That's beautiful. No wonder it has such good vibes. It came from such a good vibe place. Well, anyone listening, go to frenforest.com, F-R-E-N F-O-R-E-S-T dot com. We will also put the link in the show notes, so head over to thetoycoach.com/podcast or this episode number and you'll see the show notes or wherever you're listening, scroll down to the description. You'll see the show notes there. If someone's listening and they're sitting on an idea like you had and they're thinking about making it a toy, what would you say to them about joining Toy Creators Academy?
[00:40:01] Joanna Cotton: I'd say that if you are seriously considering developing a toy, do yourself the service of just accessing all of the information like immediately, because like I said, at the start, it would've cost me not only so much money, but years probably to figure out all of the process of making a toy and doing that through trial and error. Right. And this process did still involve a lot of trial and error. Yeah. But significantly less trial and error than if I'd just embarked on this process on my own. In fact, I had a mentor before. I started this when I was kind of thinking about it. Um, who was helping me with some sculpting, and he said he's worked with a lot of clients around the world, and he said, "I think China will swallow you up. I don't think you've got half a hope of kind of navigating that side of the business world," because I am very introverted and I am quite a sensitive person. But, um, I don't think he was saying it in any sort of malicious way or any doubt of my skill, purely just in terms of his experience navigating China. I think he was trying to give me some honest advice of, "That's not a route you want to go down." And I remember thinking, "I disagree."
[00:41:23] Azhelle Wade: You're so headstrong. I love it.
[00:41:24] Joanna Cotton: I disagree with you. I think I can do this. I'm going to find a way to do it.
[00:41:29] Azhelle Wade: Oh, I love that for you. Oh, okay. Wait, before I let you go, I have to ask you my favorite, favorite question. What toy or game blew your mind as a kid?
[00:41:40] Joanna Cotton: Oh, if I can cheat, I will say that probably like Animal Crossing or Pokémon on my DS because I was, I was a Nintendo girly and I grew up on those games and Pokémon. Pokémon is just the wonderful world. But in terms of toys, probably Build-A-Bear, really? I had a lot of Build-A-Bears. Interesting. Who were all, all had different outfits and they all had little houses. And so, yeah. And now you have Bloop Bear.
[00:42:06] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. That's so cute. Oh my gosh, Joanna, this was awesome. What an inspiring journey. Um, if people want to reach out to you, can they DM the Fren Forest Instagram? Will, will you get those messages?
[00:42:20] Joanna Cotton: Yeah, it's, it's, it's just me behind that account and I'm very happy to chat about art or production or just the world of Fren Forest or anything. Yeah.
[00:42:29] Azhelle Wade: Oh, love that. Thank you so much. Huge thanks to Joanna for sharing so much of her creative heart with us today. From sculpting clay figures in the early days to launching and successfully funding her very first toy through Kickstarter with Bloop Bear, Joanna is the perfect example of what can happen when art meets intention and has some community behind it. Joanna, thank you so much for joining us today and you listener. Thank you so much for spending this time with me today. I know your time is valuable and that there are a ton of podcasts out there, so it truly means the world to me that you tune into this one. Until next week, we will see you later, toy people. Bye. Thanks for listening to The Making It In The Toy Industry Podcast with Azhelle Wade. Head over to thetoycoach.com for more information, tips, and advice.
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