#285: TCA Accelerator Coaching Call with Michael Harring
Should you launch your toy on Kickstarter? That’s the question that we’re going to explore today.
TCA alumni Michael Harring, launched Wayward Ghouls and his line of Squeaks toys on Kickstarter as what he says is “just a test.” With the goal of $49,000, Michael’s almost at 50% with a $19,000 pledge but he shared in our interview that for some reason, pledges have stalled.
In this week’s episode, you’ll hear a real coaching call between Michael and me, where we dig into what’s actually working, what might be holding things back, and how to make progress when your audience is small and your campaign starts to slow. I’ll share why embracing “done is better than perfect” can move your launch forward, how even a tiny list can lead to big results, and how to tweak your offer without losing your creative vision. Plus, you’ll get tips for building long-term IP loyalty, even on a budget.
If you're planning to launch your toy on Kickstarter or wondering if you should, this is the episode you’ll want to hear before you hit publish.
Learn more at www.toycreatorsacademy.com
Listen For These Important Moments
[05:12] - Why testing your toy idea on Kickstarter is still worth it even with limited reach.
[17:35] - How to assess your offer, pricing, and product mix when momentum slows down.
[28:10] - Why perfection can hurt your progress and how to get feedback that leads to clarity.
[41:20] - Simple strategies that turn tiny lists into powerful backer communities.
[53:45] - How to think beyond the campaign and build lasting fan loyalty on any budget.
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This episode is brought to you by www.thetoycoach.com
PLEDGE NOW! https://www.waywardghouls.com/
Ready to work with Azhelle? JoinToy Creators Academy.
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[00:00:00] Azhelle Wade: You are listening to Making It in The Toy Industry, episode number 285.
[00:00:10] Voiceover: Welcome to Making It in The Toy Industry, a podcast for inventors, entrepreneurs, and makers like you. And now your host, Azhelle Wade.
[00:00:22] Azhelle Wade: Hey there, toy people. How are we doing? Before we dive into this week's episode, I just wanna do a quick hello, check in and update. There are a few things going on right now, right?
[00:00:33] Azhelle Wade: We know tariffs are still a thing, still an issue. I just recently had a project come back for a client where we thought that product was gonna cost about $6 and 40 cents. And because of the tariffs, we're estimating we're gonna be at a $7 and 80 cents cost on that product. Now, we planned for this. We knew tariffs are a thing, and we knew they likely would still be in effect when we went to ship out this product.
[00:00:58] Azhelle Wade: So we're okay, and we've still budgeted, and we have plenty of room in the margin. But I just wanna remind you of that, you know, remind you of that if you're in the development process and maybe part of you wants to say, oh, tariffs won't be as big of an issue, or they'll lower the 34% tariff from China by the time I launch well.
[00:01:18] Azhelle Wade: Prepare for them not to lower that tariff percentage. Prepare for it to remain as it is so that you still have a margin to play with and you can still profit off of your toy product. I know when we're talking about creating a toy that you love and building a toy idea you love, it's really hard to think about profit because you're like, I just love this idea.
[00:01:37] Azhelle Wade: I just wanna get out into the world. But at the end of the day, if you don't profit off of your idea, your company can't last. And if your company can't last, it can't impact the lives of the kids or the adults that you want to. So thinking about profit is not just a service for yourself, it is also a service for your consumer.
[00:01:54] Azhelle Wade: So don't forget about that profit piece. On a personal side, personal and business, if you've been following me on Instagram, you might've seen my latest announcement. I am going to be part of a TV show premiering September 30th, 2025 called. On brand with Jimmy Fallon. I am hoping to do a little bit of a coverage here, but there's some steps I have to take to make that happen.
[00:02:18] Azhelle Wade: But I'd love to tell you guys a little bit more about the show when I get the clearance to do so. In the meantime, block your entire day, September 30th, because that is on brand day. All right? That's the day that you're gonna be watching on brand with Jimmy Fallon and your girl, the toy coach also bma St.
[00:02:34] Azhelle Wade: John is in the show. It's, it's just incredible the fashion she brings. I mean, BMA and myself, we really just, I mean, she took it to another level, but I brought it to the office level. The office fashion level. BMA took it to the high fashion, high, high, high fashion office level. I was at the regular fashion office level, but we looked phenomenal.
[00:02:55] Azhelle Wade: Okay, so I hope that you tune into On Brand with Jimmy Fallon. Support Your Girl on Brandand with Jimmy Fallon is a creative competition. Show myself, along with nine other creatives, compete to be innovator of the year. We create marketing campaigns and we pitch them to the heads of various companies like Pillsbury Thera Body.
[00:03:15] Azhelle Wade: There are a ton of companies that are a part of the show and I am just so thrilled and we pitch those ideas to a ton of companies like Pillsbury and Duncan, and I mean, it's just a lot of fun and the winning pitch gets to have their idea come to life. So on Brand with Jimmy Fallon, September 30th, 10:00 PM Eastern, it'll be on NBC and streaming the next day on Peacock.
[00:03:38] Azhelle Wade: Alright, let's dive into today's episode. I'm thrilled to introduce Michael Herring lifelong toy and monster fan who is taking his first big leap into creating his own collectible brand. Wayward Ghouls. Michael's debut character Squeaks is a collaboration with visionary, special effects artist creature kid.
[00:03:57] Azhelle Wade: A K Adam Doherty, and is now live on Kickstarter. Squeaks is a creepy, cute designer toy packed with eighties and nineties. Monster movie nostalgia and retro charm. Before starting Wayward Ghouls, Michael built his career as a graphic designer and art director working at places like Funko and Willie Nelson's Willie's Reserve with opportunities to touch iconic brands from Disney and Star Wars to the Grateful Dead and Harry Potter.
[00:04:21] Azhelle Wade: But turning his own monster vision into reality hasn't always been easy, and that is why he turned to Toy Creators Academy, which helped him move from dreaming about his idea to actually launching his first wayward goal. In just a moment, we're gonna do what we always do when TCAs join us on the podcast, we're gonna coach through a current roadblock, celebrate wins Michael's already earned, and then spotlight his why behind Squeaks.
[00:04:42] Azhelle Wade: If you've ever wondered, is my toy idea good enough? This is an episode that you're gonna love and you don't wanna miss. Michael, welcome to the show.
[00:04:49] Michael Harring: Ah, thank you so much, Elle. It's great to be here.
[00:04:52] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. I'm so happy to have you here. I know you didn't expect to come on the show.
[00:04:56] Michael Harring: No, no.
[00:04:57] Azhelle Wade: I know we never talked about it.
[00:04:58] Azhelle Wade: 'cause I saw your Kickstarter. I'm like, maybe I can help. Maybe I can help get you out there. Let's get you on the podcast and see, I mean, you're already doing great with your Kickstarter, but I don't want you to lose momentum. I mean, I think it's a really strong start to show, um, how much people are interested in the brand that you're bringing to life.
[00:05:15] Michael Harring: Oh, absolutely. I mean, you don't really know what's going to happen and you put it out there. Hope you've done kind of like the best you can to get it in front of people and sort of expect that it's either going to like. Belly flop or just kind of fly off the charts. And of course the reality is like it doesn't really do either.
[00:05:34] Michael Harring: It's somewhere like in between where you're like, okay, this is gonna be a marathon.
[00:05:39] Azhelle Wade: I wanna start by asking you a quick question just to get people excited. We're talking about a Kickstarter that launched about 10 days ago. You've already gotten $18,000 pledged, but your goal is 49,000. So we do have some ways to go, but how big was your email list and your followers on social media when you launched this?
[00:05:57] Michael Harring: Yeah, uh, just a little over a thousand for the email list Uhhuh and a little under a thousand for social. I think when we started, um, for this kind of
[00:06:08] Azhelle Wade: money that's like not a huge following. So this is very impressive and I hope we'll get into how that happened. Maybe it's your partnership as we go through these questions.
[00:06:17] Azhelle Wade: Okay,
[00:06:18] Michael Harring: sounds great.
[00:06:19] Azhelle Wade: Alright, so we're gonna do three parts. Part one, coaching session, part two, we'll celebrate the win some more. And then part three, product spotlight. Hopefully getting more people like myself two back wayward ghouls. 'cause I ordered my Goul and I'm really hoping he's gonna come. Ah, okay.
[00:06:32] Azhelle Wade: Thank you. Yeah, of course. So, okay, let's work through challenge together. But first I got a few starter questions. What was going on in your life or your career when you decided to join Toy Creators Academy? You already had some experience in this industry, so what made you feel like this was the right move for you, this program?
[00:06:48] Michael Harring: Oh, sure. So actually right before I had just gotten laid off. And basically was applying for work, which was not very fun. And I'd wanted to be part of the toy industry for a long time, and I always kind of thought it would be more of a like lateral, like maybe I, you know, because I am. A graphic designer, maybe you would come in like a book form or something like that.
[00:07:13] Michael Harring: But basically after talking to friends who had experience and then of course working at Fundco where I got a chance to see, like meet the creatives and get a little bit more of a peek behind the curtain. I was like, you know, let me see if I can give this a shot. And as I started doing the research, of course, like the only great resource was Toy Creators Academy.
[00:07:35] Michael Harring: So I basically like started listening to the podcast. I took a couple of your
[00:07:40] Azhelle Wade: master classes, the master classes, the classes, launch party, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:07:43] Michael Harring: And basically went from thinking like, well, I'll just kind of try it out and see how far I can get to thinking like, you know what, if it's really worth like pursuing this idea.
[00:07:52] Michael Harring: Yeah, it's really worth just trying to do it right. Uh oh. That's basically like how I got it.
[00:07:58] Azhelle Wade: I love that. And so it was the podcast first, and before you joined, did you ever have a doubt that the idea was good or that you could see it through, or you were the right person to do that?
[00:08:07] Michael Harring: Oh, absolutely. Yeah.
[00:08:09] Michael Harring: So coming from, I mean, basically most of my graphic design career, like the bulk of it has been around like IP and licensed properties or people. And especially like the most recent had been Funko and the way the industry was changing, you were really seeing like, like Funko basically dropped all of their original ip.
[00:08:31] Michael Harring: They had a couple of lines that, uh, where they were creating original characters and stuff like that, and they basically decided to like just get rid of that and focus on licensed products. And there was like a, a sense to that I could see where you're just like, oh, okay. Well, if you're coming into something, if you launch a product, whatever it is, that people are already like fans of some version of that, then you don't have to spend the time brand building in the same way that you do if you have to start your own ip.
[00:09:03] Michael Harring: So that's actually like where I, I started, I was like, oh, I'm going to, I had felt like there gotten back into my pet monster and basically was just looking at the form factor, you know, a plush body and a vinyl features. And I was thinking, no one's doing this. A version of this, like at this moment, and no one's doing anything with this character.
[00:09:24] Michael Harring: And so it, it all kind of started out with me thinking like, well, maybe I can license, uh, my pet monster. Oh yeah, I
[00:09:31] Azhelle Wade: remember that. And bring it back. Oh wow. It feels like a whole other person. I remember talking to you about that. That was like a totally different mindset.
[00:09:39] Michael Harring: I think that was our, like very first call together.
[00:09:42] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. Oh, wow. And I was pro, I was probably in the nicest way possible trying to say that's not gonna happen. But
[00:09:52] Michael Harring: do you remember what I said? I mean, you were very like pragmatic. I don't remember anything. Oh, that's not gonna happen. Right. Okay. You know, but it was, I remember very, you're like, you're very problem solving.
[00:10:03] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. You know,
[00:10:03] Michael Harring: so it was kind of like, okay, well what are the like elements here?
[00:10:07] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. I I do remember you wanted to license that. And I just, and I remember thinking like, that'd be great, but it, it will be hard to get that license. So my PET Monster is a character that began as a plush doll in 1986. It had horns, blue fur, this quirky smile.
[00:10:23] Azhelle Wade: Um, it has like breakaway orange plastic handcuffs the original toy had. And the property was sold to Ban Brands in 2012. And it was required, uh, by Hasbro in 2018. I'm not sure who sits with now, I'm assuming maybe still Hasbro. And that was the product that you were interested in potentially licensing.
[00:10:42] Azhelle Wade: And then I think later on you saw that they were bringing it back in some way. Or there was some news about someone bringing back my pet monster. Right. That sounds familiar, right?
[00:10:51] Michael Harring: It was after I decided to just kind of let that go. Right. But just in the last, probably the last six to seven months, I think mm-hmm.
[00:10:59] Michael Harring: It was like announced and released, uh, loyal Sub. So, uh, it's still with Hasbro. Okay. I believe Loyal Subjects is licensing it from Hasbro and they've a smaller version of them.
[00:11:10] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. It's, oh, that's so interesting. So what's, what is also, what you also brought up and brought to mind for me was when you first started, you said that Funko was focusing more on licensed goods, and then I'm thinking about how Hasbro is licensing out their property.
[00:11:24] Azhelle Wade: And I'm noticing that this clear divide between toy companies that are specializing in the manufacturing piece and then toy companies that are specializing in the IP building piece we had in what we're seeing, like in how there's so much competition these days. We do still need ips that people are connected to, but we need companies whose jobs are solely to build those ips.
[00:11:43] Azhelle Wade: And then we need companies who focus on the manufacturing, like the production of. Multiple items, multiple skews, and the importing of those goods. And they can make money on that. And while there's other companies that are focusing on building the ip, you just made me realize there is really becoming this clear divide between specializations in toy companies.
[00:12:01] Azhelle Wade: And that might be a good thing to think about as an entrepreneur when you're starting, not that you have to have so many SKUs right off the bat, but that you're focusing on building your squeaks IP or your wayward ghouls ip primarily over having so many SKUs. So what shifted your mindset from wanting to do first licensing my PET monster, hopefully from Hasbro to deciding to go all in on your own ip.
[00:12:27] Michael Harring: Yeah. So I went as far as talking with a, uh, consultant who is a, a licensing consultant to kind of like get their take. Mm-hmm. And. They were actually sort of on board until I mentioned Kickstarter. They felt that at that time, like my PET Monster was obscure enough that you could maybe like get it for a reasonable, I'm missing the term, but it's like a minimum guarantee to them.
[00:12:52] Michael Harring: And it was like, well, I, I think you could probably like. Get something reasonable in that aspect. But it's like they're, they're never going to go for a Kickstarter. Like you basically have to have the capital, right. Introduce the thing yourself. Because if it were to fail with the Kickstarter, then they're like, well, that does more damage to their brand then if they hadn't bothered, you know, they hadn't even taken that minimum guarantee.
[00:13:17] Michael Harring: Mm-hmm. Uh, to begin with. And honestly, I felt like I had hit like a wall there. Mm-hmm. And I was kind of like gonna throw in the towel. But, you know, talking to, uh, Kirsten, my, my partner, and actually like, maybe a day after that meeting, I met with some friends, uh, Diane and Molly, who mm-hmm. Uh, I worked together with at, uh, Willie's Reserve.
[00:13:38] Michael Harring: And I had start done very, very preliminary idea of like what, what my own kind of, uh, version of things would, would be like. But the idea of building that IP from scratch just seemed like insurmountable. And so, like, I was kind of. Intending to go into that lunch and, you know, it was like a catch up meeting type of thing and just be like, Hey, can you just give me like some honest feedback?
[00:14:05] Michael Harring: Like, is this silly for me to kind of go ahead with it? And I kind of imagined that they were going to be like, yeah, building like your own original IP from scratch these days is like an uphill battle. Um, you know, like not worth pursuing. And no, they were like super stoked. They were like, no, no, this is like a great idea.
[00:14:27] Michael Harring: You know, like I had been doing like my own Halloween displays. Yeah. Uh, and so like that's, it was called Belvedere Home for Wayward Ghouls. And that's sort of like the same premise where the, instead of having like. A House of Terror. It was the idea that actually this is more of like a halfway house like rescue type of situation for the ghouls and people who don't belong elsewhere.
[00:14:51] Michael Harring: And so there was like that kernel to begin with. So they, they were aware of that and like some of the little things that I've been doing with that, and they're like, no, no, no, you should make your own thing in this like nostalgic, like form factor
[00:15:04] Azhelle Wade: I love. And so that was that. Yeah.
[00:15:07] Michael Harring: It was great. If it weren't for them, I don't, I don't think this would be happening.
[00:15:11] Azhelle Wade: Oh no. Oh my gosh. I'm so grateful to them. So give us your elevator pitch for Wayward goals. How would you describe it if you only had like a 32nd elevator ride with us right now?
[00:15:21] Michael Harring: Sure, sure. Okay. So Wayward Ghouls are a found family of Monster Misfits who live together in a haunted video store. And basically this video store sort of appears to people in need, kind of like, uh, like Brigadoon.
[00:15:34] Michael Harring: Uh, for a very old reference. The first school squeaks basically is a little bit more proactive and, and goes out into the world to find people who may need a little bit of help finding this home. They're basically inspired by, uh, by monsters and Monster Toys from the eighties and nineties. Uh, so think like Gremlins and my pet Monster.
[00:15:57] Michael Harring: And then the final piece was that I wanted to create sort of like an elevated toy slash collectible that was really aimed at, uh, grownup collectors, you know, people who are nostalgic for the toys, um, as opposed to just going straight for, uh, for, for like the kid audience.
[00:16:16] Azhelle Wade: And what was the hardest part of launching this Kickstarter?
[00:16:19] Michael Harring: Good question. Getting everything together, but honestly like tariffs and the, and the economy. Like I, I feel like that ended up being a big, you know, a lot of people I've seen kind of like. Like just stop their, uh, Kickstarter, even past the point of having been funded. Really? Wow. For fear. Oh yeah. That, that was probably the most, uh, shock.
[00:16:41] Michael Harring: Like, I don't know if I'd they'd want to be
[00:16:44] Azhelle Wade: exposed, but we, we do. Right, right. Yeah. We do have another TCA who actually funded and had to write to people saying, we'll let you know what the tariff fee will be for your product because Oh, was, because it she'd funded after the latest slew of, of the, the di minimus exemption being ended that is adding a whole layer of tariffs that she was not expecting for direct to consumer sales and shipping.
[00:17:08] Azhelle Wade: So yeah, I mean, the product was already a very generous low margin. Like she was really helping her people, but now it doesn't make any sense. Like to ship it. Yeah.
[00:17:20] Michael Harring: Okay. I think I know the project you're talking about. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I'm sorry to hear that.
[00:17:25] Azhelle Wade: I know. I mean, it's okay. I'm one for backers, so I'm like, whatever you need.
[00:17:28] Azhelle Wade: Yeah, yeah,
[00:17:29] Michael Harring: yeah. I, I backed her too. You did? Oh, that's okay. Yeah.
[00:17:33] Azhelle Wade: Oh,
[00:17:33] Michael Harring: and, and yeah, I don't mind waiting. I feel like this is out of, you know, uh, out of her control, you know, I mean, it's out of all of our control really.
[00:17:42] Azhelle Wade: And you're based in the US correct?
[00:17:44] Michael Harring: Yeah. Uh, I'm in, uh, Seattle.
[00:17:46] Azhelle Wade: You're in the heart of the issue with me.
[00:17:48] Azhelle Wade: So if you could snap your fingers and instantly fix just one thing in your business, or maybe your Kickstarter, what would it be?
[00:17:55] Michael Harring: God. Um, so. I guess the specific, without the, the world aside, I think like if I could just snap my fingers and be an expert in sourcing and manufacturing mm-hmm. That might be it.
[00:18:09] Michael Harring: Just to understand the ways that I could like maximize the quality and minimize and, you know, while still being like somewhat frugal in the, uh, the process. 'cause I feel like that's been some of the struggle is going in thinking like. Why isn't anyone making this kind of a, a mixed, uh, media form factor?
[00:18:31] Michael Harring: Yeah. And then you realize like, oh, okay. That's why. 'cause it's,
[00:18:34] Azhelle Wade: yeah. Well, so to describe Michael's project, which if you're watching on YouTube, you can see it in the background with him there. But to describe it, for anybody who's listening a wayward ghouls has multiple products under it. One is squeaks, the first is squeaks.
[00:18:47] Azhelle Wade: It's got a furry body, but plastic features like plastic eyes, plastic nose, plastic ears, plastic wings, plastic feet, even with like claw tips. And Michael's biggest struggle has been finding a manufacturer who, at a reasonable price point can make in all of these different things. And it's actually supposed, it's not just a fur body, it's not like a fur wrapped around plastic like I think we discussed, it's actually a plush body.
[00:19:09] Michael Harring: Oh, no, no. It is. Uh, no. Is fur
[00:19:10] Azhelle Wade: Okay.
[00:19:11] Michael Harring: It is fur on rot. Cast, um, body, I guess. Vinyl. Vinyl, yeah. Yeah. Uh, yeah. 'cause the original plan was plush, but I think that actually just made it more. Complex. Yes. Because you still need the, uh,
[00:19:26] Azhelle Wade: because that's what we talked about on our call, right? Like you were doing plush and then I was like, well, can it just be a skin that wraps it?
[00:19:31] Azhelle Wade: Is that one a skin or is that one from the plush version?
[00:19:34] Michael Harring: This is a skin, this is all 3D printed. Oh, okay. But, but same type of thing, like mm-hmm. So it, it would be like a little bit, it'd give a little bit more than mm-hmm. The resin. But yeah, this is like a hollow body. So the, the body would be rotate, cast all the little limbs.
[00:19:52] Michael Harring: Yeah. Those would actually be injection molded. Um,
[00:19:55] Azhelle Wade: and what, what do you feel like your next move should be now that you're at the, you know, at, you're at the stage you're at with $18,000 in funding, you've got this beautiful prototype that you can clearly 3D print and create more of yourself. What, what do you think your next move should be here?
[00:20:09] Michael Harring: Well, I think a lot of it'll depend on, on the outcome of the, uh, the Kickstarter. But you know, just in one of our last group meetings, I feel like you were making this great point of like, you know, you need to fo uh, uh, we were talking about the, the heads and you were like, you need to focus. Yeah. Maybe on, on the heads.
[00:20:26] Michael Harring: Oh, I'm gonna get you about
[00:20:28] Azhelle Wade: that in a minute. Yeah. I was like,
[00:20:30] Michael Harring: where are the heads? And, and so I, uh, what was it? And, and you told me like, you, you should, you should like poll your audience about that. And so basically I, I did and I kind of did like a bunch of tears. So it was like, you know, hey, uh, I think I was listing prices.
[00:20:48] Michael Harring: That was it. Mm-hmm. So I was like, you know this little guy at this price, how interested in you are, you know, yes. No, yeah. Maybe type of thing. And then I was did, uh, asked about like same dimensions, all vinyl. No. Like, no fur. Fur. Mm-hmm. Sculpted fur. Mm-hmm. Uh, and then I kind of made like, what about a smaller version?
[00:21:07] Michael Harring: And finally, like, the lowest was basically a, how about like a blind box kind of version? Mm. That's real small. Just a couple of inches and, um, uh, roughly like a $20 retail. Mm-hmm. Uh, which I hope isn't overly optimistic.
[00:21:25] Azhelle Wade: Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's a little but okay. With it's fur and plastic, still with the small one?
[00:21:30] Michael Harring: Oh, no, no, no. With the, the, the small one would be just all plastic. Plastic. Oh,
[00:21:35] Azhelle Wade: okay. Okay.
[00:21:35] Michael Harring: And going in I was like, well, people are falling in love with the form factor. It's like, it's the mm-hmm. The fur. And, uh, no, people were, uh, completely interested in like the, the, the simpler it got, the more interested they were.
[00:21:51] Michael Harring: It was less of a, a. An investment and, and that was kind of like the first eye-opening moment where it's like, oh, people are actually starting to respond to the character, you know, like, like not just, you know, the life size. 'cause I think of this as like the life size squeaks. Yeah. So, you know, if squeaks were real,
[00:22:11] Azhelle Wade: this is how big he would be flying around
[00:22:13] Michael Harring: and like perching around you.
[00:22:15] Michael Harring: Like this is exactly the size he would be. Um, yeah. So, so that was, uh, I can't remember the question. Oh, well
[00:22:23] Azhelle Wade: what do you think your next move should be? And you said you pulled people to find out, so I, I wanna bring up these heads. So squeaks is about how big is squeaks?
[00:22:31] Michael Harring: Yeah, I think he's about 10 or 11 and I think it's about 13.
[00:22:36] Azhelle Wade: Okay,
[00:22:37] Michael Harring: from a claw to cloth,
[00:22:39] Azhelle Wade: so squeaks is about 10 to thir, 10 by 13 inches. And when we were in a TCA coaching call, Michael was talking about, I, I don't remember what you were bringing up. I think at the time you were bringing up manufacturing, actually, I think we were talking about manufacturing for this squeak.
[00:22:54] Azhelle Wade: But then on as a side note, you'd mentioned that you'd started selling what are essentially busts or, um, what do you call those things when it, like you hang game on your wall? Um, oh
[00:23:06] Michael Harring: yeah. Like a taxidermy mount.
[00:23:08] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. Yes. You'd been selling, selling essentially a taxidermy head mount of a squeaks. And you'd said you'd sold, you'd sold out of one color, I believe, at a show.
[00:23:19] Azhelle Wade: Or you were about to sell out of an, and you were about to sell out of another and people kept ordering those and you got to the point where you're like, oh, I'm gonna have to make more and they take forever and I don't wanna make them. And I paused for a second, I'm like, wait a second. So you've been going to all these shows trying to sell and this big guy here, no one seems to bite 'cause he's so expensive.
[00:23:34] Azhelle Wade: But the little guy who is cheaper and smaller and easier for you to make, everyone's willing to buy at. Like, wasn't it like $200?
[00:23:41] Michael Harring: I think the lowest I was selling 'em for at the time was like, like 2 75. 2 75
[00:23:46] Azhelle Wade: for a smaller version than what you're showing on the screen here today. And people were buying it.
[00:23:52] Azhelle Wade: And I know you without much of a sales effort, like you're, it's not like, not like you were sitting there like, you should buy this. Here's all the reasons why. Like you were just like, this is my thing. Like if you want. And so I thought immediately obviously that taxidermy, head mountable thing is what you should focus on selling first.
[00:24:10] Azhelle Wade: So when I went and saw your Kickstarter head launch, that is immediately what I was looking to back and it wasn't there. And I was like, where did it go? And then the, um, squeaks that is there is heavily discounted. I mean, the rate that I was able to get one for. In the Kickstarter was really surprising to me, and I thought, well, and I have, having had other TCAs launch, like Joanna launching her friend force and seeing the multiple tiers and how that helped her reach her goal, I started to think like, well, why didn't he do the heads and have that be the $50 entry point or this $75 entry point?
[00:24:44] Azhelle Wade: Because I see you're giving a discount, a massive discount to people that are funding Wayward GULs now. So why didn't you do the heads? Is it because you didn't have the prototype ready? Because you haven't sourced it yet? Like, what was the reason behind that?
[00:24:56] Michael Harring: Uh, bas basically exactly that I had contacted different companies about.
[00:25:01] Michael Harring: Mm-hmm. Uh, well actually about this and about, uh, other form factors and I was just kind of like running, kind of hitting, hitting like a brick wall where it was either with, um, uh. What was it? The like the NNN, like kind of whether they'd be willing to do like, kind of the non-disclosure type of thing to just kind of like getting all the elements, like the, the trickiest part with the head is that it's also mounted on like a wood plaque.
[00:25:32] Azhelle Wade: This is where, okay, so you made a comment a few minutes ago where you were like, oh, I wish I was better at sourcing. What I think that a lot of people who are just starting out don't realize what makes somebody good at sourcing is just makes them adaptable to change is being adaptable to change your idea, you know, to fit whatever the capabilities are of the factory.
[00:25:53] Azhelle Wade: Like I don't go into sourcing a project thinking like, I want this to be made of this and be made at this size that and that and that. Because I know I'm sourcing a product that at the end of the day has to be in a $50 price range. I know what my perfect situa like solution is, what the perfect product will be.
[00:26:09] Azhelle Wade: But I go in there and I show the factory and I say, Hey, this is what I need this to look like. This is what I want it to do. What can you get me at this price range and at this price range? And then we have conversations where that back. Piece is probably not going to be wood, so it's probably going to be plastic.
[00:26:24] Azhelle Wade: But how can we make it look and feel like wood? Is it a different texture? Do we make it mat not glossy, do we, do we paint it like wood or do we just try to do a different effect entirely? So that's what makes you like good at sourcing. It's just being able to problem solve quickly, make concessions quickly, and be able to kind of admit defeat and give up certain things.
[00:26:45] Azhelle Wade: Because at the end of the day, imagine you're not making the perfect product right now. You're trying to build affinity for this ip. So you just wanna build like a magical, affordable, and consistent experience that people can buy into. You want them to be able to afford it. And you want them to be able to enjoy it.
[00:27:01] Azhelle Wade: You want them to be able to give it to other people. So if it's like a $500 price point, they can't do that. So that's what I think is really hard for not just you, like all emerging creators that want to build something that's close to their heart, they think like, oh, I can't give up on, has to be this perfect quality of everything.
[00:27:17] Azhelle Wade: Or it doesn't, or it shouldn't exist. And there's ways to bring things to life, slightly cheaper version to, you know, offset tariffs and to make sure your consumers can afford it. And that's kind of what I think you need to do next. Like go into it with a different mindset. Mm-hmm. Um, or, or you have somebody else start sourcing it for you and be open-minded to, okay, what's that first sample look like?
[00:27:38] Azhelle Wade: Even if it doesn't look totally like what I was imagining, um. Yeah, that's my thought, but
[00:27:44] Michael Harring: I, I think you're dead on. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:27:46] Azhelle Wade: Okay. Thanks. I mean, I'm sorry that you have to come to this moment. Oh, no,
[00:27:51] Michael Harring: but it's, it's, it's good because I mean, exactly that struggle that you're talking about. Yeah. That's where I was, I, I was kind of at where I had, I'd actually even like announced the Kickstarter date and pushed it back, I think already twice.
[00:28:05] Michael Harring: And then like, we had that meeting and I was kind of like, you know, gel's Right. Obviously, obviously. And, and I was like, but I also have, like, I have this mailing list and, and like a lot of people who, who are at least somewhat invested in this version. Yeah. And I was like, you know what, let me at least just go ahead, see, we'll do this Kickstarter.
[00:28:29] Michael Harring: Yeah. And, and we'll give, we'll give squeaks a chance to fly. Hmm. And so just the idea of kind of like, 'cause that's the weird thing about like. Uh, both with social media and also being at the shows like at Designer Con. Some like, uh, you know, there'd be lots of people who you're kind of like, oh, if, if the full size squeaks was available here right now for $175.
[00:28:55] Michael Harring: Mm-hmm. I feel like they might've actually bought, bought one. Interesting. Um, but, but the extra a hundred dollars for the handmade, uh, you know, the, the amount that I painted I see, you know, that for them was like, out too much, out of the, uh, the range. Um, and so like that's, that was kind of where I was at.
[00:29:13] Michael Harring: I was like, okay, let's just got it. Put this out there, see what happens. And. And I also feel like this is part of like, the learning process. I was like, at the very least, this is good, like marketing information, you know, or market research.
[00:29:26] Azhelle Wade: Yeah, definitely is the only thing I worry about is not using this momentum.
[00:29:29] Azhelle Wade: So I'd love to talk now about what challenge do you want us to walk through today? What can we possibly work through today to maybe help you get, continue the momentum that you started with the Kickstarter?
[00:29:41] Michael Harring: Yeah. I guess it would just be this, uh, this like interest plateau that I've kind of hit. Mm-hmm.
[00:29:47] Michael Harring: You know, like after the first, uh, the first week. And I know there's kinda like the natural cycle with Kickstarter, um, but still just like, uh, I feel like there are millions, uh, you know, hun like a few hundred million people in the United States. Um, and, and of course like the entire world and it's like if I can just get Yeah.
[00:30:10] Michael Harring: Like almost 300. Mm-hmm. Uh, who are like. Excited about squeaks at, at, you know, in this form, at this price point. Uh, then we, we can make, make it a reality. So, right. Uh, and how, how to reach them. So
[00:30:27] Azhelle Wade: right now you have 94 backers, which considering your, your a thousand email list, that's like a 10%, uh, conversion rate.
[00:30:33] Azhelle Wade: That's incredible. My conversion rate's like 6% if I'm lucky. And mine is very high. And so 10% is really great. I wonder, do you, are you running ads and are you opposed to running ads?
[00:30:47] Michael Harring: Oh, uh, already running ads and definitely not opposed to, so what are,
[00:30:50] Azhelle Wade: okay, so are you running them off your Facebook account?
[00:30:52] Azhelle Wade: 'cause I can look them up right now and I will.
[00:30:55] Michael Harring: Oh yeah. Um,
[00:30:57] Azhelle Wade: uh, yes I am. Let's see, uh, is it the, it's a wayward go account?
[00:31:01] Michael Harring: Yes. Okay.
[00:31:02] Azhelle Wade: Let me look them up. And how's it going?
[00:31:04] Michael Harring: So as far as them actual, like pledges?
[00:31:07] Azhelle Wade: Yeah.
[00:31:07] Michael Harring: Right now. Not great at all.
[00:31:09] Azhelle Wade: What's happening with them?
[00:31:11] Michael Harring: Um, it, it's basically like, I think they're, uh.
[00:31:15] Michael Harring: So what I think was happening is my bill was highest when I, uh, kind of like at the, towards the end of the first week where people were definitely like clicking on it, but I think they were just like, oh, okay, this is too expensive. Uh, not interested. So like,
[00:31:32] Azhelle Wade: okay. So you, a couple lot, a couple of problems and thoughts already.
[00:31:35] Azhelle Wade: One, you only have, you've, oh, you have two ads running. Are they both running to the same ad set?
[00:31:41] Michael Harring: No. Slightly different ad sets.
[00:31:42] Azhelle Wade: What are the ad sets?
[00:31:44] Michael Harring: Um, let's see. Yeah, let's see. So I think one is focused on, uh, and I've done a couple different ones, but the current ones I think are like, uh, to nostalgia, collectibles.
[00:32:04] Michael Harring: And punk rock and mm-hmm. I think the other set is, I think also nostalgia and collectibles, but, and then that's, I think that one, what's your click was either Halloween or, oh, let me see.
[00:32:21] Azhelle Wade: So I have a few comments. One, we talked through email about using chat bt to help you set up your ads, correct? Yes. And I wonder if, I'm curious to see what your chat said to you about these.
[00:32:35] Azhelle Wade: 'cause I think your ads seem a little like the, the, so the image, I'm looking at the image, lemme see if I can share my screen actually, so we can. So how do I find
[00:32:46] Michael Harring: my click through rate? If you go, I should say I am not, uh, you're not the best. Like this is my first time. Yeah, no, this is my first time you having to run this part.
[00:32:55] Michael Harring: I made the creative. Okay. Not the,
[00:33:00] Azhelle Wade: alright, well, um, maybe you can share screen after, and I can, like, I have to see it, but basically like when you're on the business page and you see like, uh, how many impressions you had, there's like a dropdown where you can choose what columns to add and you can add the column click through rate if it's not already there.
[00:33:17] Azhelle Wade: Um, but I have to look, there's so many different icons, so I'd have to see, you know, you know it by, by visual. So like, I'd have to see it to tell you. Oh, click that one.
[00:33:24] Michael Harring: I don't know if this is it, but, so on my horror nostalgia, like my impressions are 43,659
[00:33:33] Azhelle Wade: Oh Uhhuh and
[00:33:33] Michael Harring: the results are 836.
[00:33:36] Azhelle Wade: What's it counting as a
[00:33:37] Michael Harring: result?
[00:33:38] Michael Harring: Uh, oh, landing pa page views.
[00:33:41] Azhelle Wade: But how can it, what does it think the landing pages. Oh, uh, how is that? Did you add a Facebook, um, a pixel to the Kickstarter page?
[00:33:53] Michael Harring: I did. You can't,
[00:33:55] Azhelle Wade: but you, the Kickstarter page isn't on your website, so you would've had to verify the Kickstarter page on Facebook. Did you verify?
[00:34:03] Azhelle Wade: I,
[00:34:05] Michael Harring: I thought I did. So, like, like I, I think,
[00:34:08] Azhelle Wade: yeah, I'm curious because like, all right, I haven't done landing page views in a while. Um, but what happens, what happened when the, for when iOS 14 rolled out, you had to like verify every website that you sent people to off of Facebook. And then it became a situation where people stopped sending, sending people to like face, like, I don't know, to like Kickstarter, whatever, whatever, because that, that wasn't their owned website and they couldn't update the H TM L on the backend.
[00:34:34] Azhelle Wade: But I don't, I've never run a Kickstarter on my own. So I don't know if you can update the H TM L to have your pixel on the backend. Maybe you can, and maybe you did. So there was
[00:34:43] Michael Harring: something, yeah, yeah, there was some pixel. The pixel thing is also over my head, so I did follow these like articles. Mm-hmm. Um, but I can't, you know, I can't say I really understand the logic of everything.
[00:34:58] Michael Harring: It's more kind of like, oh, do this than this, than this. Um, yeah. And it seems to be so I have tracking that.
[00:35:06] Azhelle Wade: Okay. So let me, like, this is like a hard thing to do last minute, but let me think about what I would do differently. Okay. So. First things first, I would actually change your ad set so that you're first targeting people who like Kickstarter and know Kickstarter first, and then you know how you can refine your audience.
[00:35:29] Azhelle Wade: So it's like you can make the fir primary bucket Kickstarter, and then you can do nostalgia and punk rock and all the other stuff you're talking about. I would filter by Kickstarter first because what I'm worried is happening is people who don't, who've never used Kickstarter before, are clicking your link and they get to this page and they're overwhelmed because this, the Kickstarter page is designed to be a great Kickstarter website, but it's not ideally designed specifically for Wayward Go.
[00:35:53] Azhelle Wade: So someone could easily get distracted. They could say, oh, this is really cool. I wonder what else they have on this site. And then they're gone. You know what I mean? So I think I would probably change one of your ad sets to just, just having Kickstarter bucket first, then filter down to people who, so pe basically people who like Kickstarter and are into punk rock or nostalgia or whatever, or whatever.
[00:36:15] Azhelle Wade: But first Bucket, Kickstarter. Um, and then I know you, you only have 14 more days to go, so this is like a tough ask. 'cause like the best thing to do would be, um, send people to your email list and then convert them over.
[00:36:29] Michael Harring: Oh, Uhhuh. But
[00:36:30] Azhelle Wade: with 14 days, it's like you only, you could run an ad for like seven days, get people to your email list and see if you could convert them to join your Kickstarter.
[00:36:37] Azhelle Wade: But there's not enough time of nurturing, so I'm a little nervous about that. Mm-hmm. Okay. So, okay. The, the main issues I see on your ad. Is, I see. I would, I feel like you would better benefit from doing maybe like a countdown ad, um, where your copy says something like 14 days left Kickstarter, so that before people click, they know where they're going.
[00:37:06] Azhelle Wade: They know that they're going to a Kickstarter page, and they don't get confused or overwhelmed when they click over. So your copy should say something about Kickstarter and something about like 14 days left, maybe a clock emoji. This wayward ghoul is going away. I don't know, blah, blah, blah. Um, and SF so you wrote like, meet, meet the, so the, the ad you have here says, meet the newest monster friend designed by SFX Visionary Creature Kid.
[00:37:34] Azhelle Wade: This limited edition goal is not a toy, but a handcrafted monster Art reserve your very own prop level collectible master at a special Kickstarter price today. So I, I wanna know more like I feel like. Kickstart, like the Kickstarter price, the normal price should be on here. And then the Kickstarter price should be in the copy.
[00:37:51] Azhelle Wade: So I wanna click over already knowing how much I'm saving. And then this person, creature kid, I don't know him, but if somebody knows him, then two things. One, you might wanna be targeting people that know creature kid. If he has an audience on Facebook, two, his face should be used in the ad images. Um, oh, that's
[00:38:11] Michael Harring: a great idea.
[00:38:12] Azhelle Wade: Right? So if he's important, but I would do, I would probably do multiple, um, art on the same ad set and then, um, and then, but then do one copy, like perfect, one copy. You leave the copy the same and then test multiple art. And, um, I think, I'm not sure, I feel I would test a couple of art. So like, I feel like one art I would do is I would have your.
[00:38:42] Azhelle Wade: First of all, what about your video, the video that you put on Kickstarter?
[00:38:47] Michael Harring: Oh, yeah. That would make a great ad. So, okay. I, well, I'll, I will try it again. What, what, uh, I, I had used it for, um, what was it, when I was doing the, the lead, uh, gathering leads. Yeah. So like, I, I had launched like an ad campaign just to get people to sign up for the, uh, email list.
[00:39:09] Michael Harring: Mm-hmm. And, and like the videos were just not, uh, uh, converting as well as the still images, which, which totally flew in the face of like, everything I'd ever heard about, you know, like social media marketing. Um,
[00:39:29] Azhelle Wade: but it just might be that your, your video isn't hitting the right target audience and that your ads weren't hitting the right target target audience.
[00:39:36] Azhelle Wade: Also, it could be that your video doesn't have any captions on.
[00:39:40] Michael Harring: Oh, okay.
[00:39:42] Azhelle Wade: Um, okay, so, okay, so then, so I would try your video, but I would also tighten up the copy. Like I want the copy. I mean, I would ask at GBT 'cause I use Chad GBT for ads all the time, but I want, want your copy to be something like, um, oh, love or Loved my pet monster.
[00:40:00] Azhelle Wade: The latest nostalgic plush toy is here. 14 days left to get your wayward ghoul on Kickstarter at a, I don't know, is it a 65% discount? Whatever the discount is. Um, uh, uh, designed by, and like, these are all separate lines, so they're easy to read, not one big paragraph designed by, uh, and I don't know what SFX is.
[00:40:23] Azhelle Wade: I don't know if other people Oh,
[00:40:24] Michael Harring: special effects.
[00:40:26] Azhelle Wade: Oh, I thought that. And so it's
[00:40:28] Michael Harring: like the people who would be, yeah. So that, and, and so like this, this ad is sort of like the. You know, the fourth or fifth like iteration I've, I've done. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You know, trying to, like, especially after hitting this plateau mm-hmm.
[00:40:42] Michael Harring: Of just seeing if I can find the people who I had hadn't picked up with my previous, uh, so campaigns. And so like, this was an idea that like, like, okay, I seen like the, uh, God, what was the original, I guess the horror and toy collectors, um, seemed like not nothing was happening. And so I was like, okay, well I hadn't specifically targeted people who are fans of like mm-hmm.
[00:41:09] Michael Harring: Special effects and makeup artists.
[00:41:11] Azhelle Wade: Exactly. Like if I was gonna use that, I would, I don't know, because now, 'cause like when I was reading that, I got tripped up by that and that's not the first thing that comes to my mind when I see SFX. So then I start focusing on that Uhhuh. So if, like, if I don't know SFX and I don't know Creature Kid, you've now distracted me twice before I even get to the word wayward ghouls in your image.
[00:41:30] Azhelle Wade: Okay. And like, so I feel like. Pull either like the SFX word only for the people that or you're targeting who are into special effects creature kid only for the people that really fit, um, that would know him. Uh, otherwise it just gets distracting. So then I would go like, 'cause I would do like my pet monster, like were you a fan of my pet monster?
[00:41:52] Azhelle Wade: I'd probably do like three, like my pet monster, comma, another nostalgic 80 brand, comma, another nostalgic, eighties brand comma, um, introducing the latest, nostalgic, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I would be targeting that age range, but it would be like 30 to like 50-year-old Uhhuh. And then all of the interest that you said to narrow it down even more because like, just to look at your conversion rate.
[00:42:14] Azhelle Wade: So you said you had like 44,000, uh, impressions. Mm-hmm. You had about 800 landing page views. That's a 1.8% click, uh, 1.8%. Uh. Conversion rate for landing page views and your conversion rate from your email list to actually backing your campaign is 10%. So what that tells me is like, you have gotten the right people to your email list, but you, um, and they, and when the right people see your Kickstarter, 10% of them are likely to convert.
[00:42:47] Azhelle Wade: Mm-hmm. And now we're seeing a 1% conversion from your ads. So that tells me you're not hitting your right people. You know what I mean?
[00:42:55] Michael Harring: So one of my questions about that. That totally makes sense. Yeah,
[00:42:59] Azhelle Wade: yeah, yeah.
[00:42:59] Michael Harring: Um, and I, and I wonder if it is the price, because basically before I added the, like, price on the ad, yeah.
[00:43:10] Michael Harring: My click through rate was much higher. And I actually, the reason I put the, uh, the, uh, the price on there was to try to actually like filter out people who like. Like that sticker shock. I didn't that it was, I didn't
[00:43:24] Azhelle Wade: even see your price though. It's so, it's so small. Well, it's not on just, yeah, on
[00:43:30] Michael Harring: this one, but on the uh, uh, uh, on the ads it would be like, you know, your iPhone.
[00:43:37] Azhelle Wade: Oh, well that, okay, so this depends. So if you didn't go into your, so in the ad settings, you can choose where it appears and if you choose, only appear in the Facebook feed, did you choose that? If you don't, this little square, I dunno if you've ever been on Facebook, there's sometimes ads in the top right and they're like super, super tiny.
[00:43:56] Azhelle Wade: It will be there.
[00:43:58] Michael Harring: Uh, I do know exactly what Yeah, you're talking about about.
[00:44:02] Azhelle Wade: Right. So like sometimes, yeah. Okay. But only in the feed ads one take longer to serve because they're, uh, more people wanna be there and they're more expensive. 'cause more people wanna be there. So, so only sometimes do, I do only show in Facebook feed ads, otherwise I just make sure that my artwork has less stuff going on.
[00:44:19] Azhelle Wade: So like, if I wanted to show all of this, I think I would have the goal really big in the center, and then I would have the Kickstarter logo, um, big in the center with him price maybe top left or top right, a little bit bigger. And then I would say, and, but actually I wouldn't say Kickstarter special. I would have the original price crossed out, then 1 75 big Kickstarter logo.
[00:44:43] Azhelle Wade: And then I would have, oh my God, what was I gonna say? So we have him in the middle. We have the thing, we have Kickstarter logo.
[00:44:54] Azhelle Wade: I'm totally, I'm totally blanking on what I was gonna say. Him in the middle Kickstarter logo on the back, on the top. Yeah, I think, and then I would probably do a slide.
[00:45:06] Michael Harring: Mm.
[00:45:07] Azhelle Wade: Like I'm like wondering if she make carousel. Oh, I remember what I was gonna say. 14 days left. So, okay. So a thing that you're gonna see, I'm going to launch this, this coming TCA launch.
[00:45:16] Azhelle Wade: What I've done in the past is I've made graphics countdowns, you could start at 10 days, 'cause now you have like 14 days, so you want some time to prepare. So I will create a graphic and then also create a countdown graphic. So I will be targeting a very small audience, or retargeting a very small audience and say 10 days left till this Kickstarter ends.
[00:45:38] Azhelle Wade: Nine days left till the Kickstarter ends. So I'm paying to get the same thing in front of them all the time, but it's, so they're seeing the number go down and there's like a little bit more urgency than they get from seeing a normal ad. So, um, I would just think about making some ads, artwork that's like 10 days left.
[00:45:55] Azhelle Wade: 12 days left so that people want to click on it more urgently and you can have multiple ads running to the same ad set and Facebook will pick whatever is working the best.
[00:46:04] Michael Harring: Oh, okay. Okay. And how do you, so I guess with, uh, the countdown, do you basically just say like, it will only run this day to this day?
[00:46:14] Michael Harring: Yes. Yep. Exactly. That makes sense. Exactly.
[00:46:17] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. Yeah. So I'll preset them and then like, I'm trying to think like the be so, okay, so if you have pe, so like if you do videos. For your ads or you have done them in the past, you can actually target people who have watched like 25 to 50% of your video and resend them some of these ads, if you have an, if you have like over a thousand people that have done that, I don't know how long and how many people watched your videos, but if you have that, you might, you might think about retargeting those people with some of these Kickstarter um, ads also, last bit of advice I wanna give before I know we have to move on because we have so much stuff to get to.
[00:46:55] Azhelle Wade: But if you have, um, your email list, if you have a thousand people, you should be able to create a lookalike audience off of your email list. In my experience, that is the cheapest leads I've ever gotten. So you upload your email list, um, and then you have Facebook create like a lookalike audience of only us people from your email list.
[00:47:15] Azhelle Wade: They pull all the data that they have from those emails and they just create a lookalike audience and then you don't even have to choose the interest. For me, right now, my interest ads are like twice as expensive as my lookalike, um, email list ads. And separate from that, you can do a lookalike Instagram ads.
[00:47:32] Azhelle Wade: I think you might have enough followers to do that. You can do lookalike to Instagram and Facebook, and it's anybody who's interacted with your page in the past, I think you can do up to 365 days with Instagram. It might be 180 days, I can't remember. Um, but that has actually been equally successful for me as lookalike email ads.
[00:47:51] Michael Harring: Oh, wow. Okay.
[00:47:52] Azhelle Wade: So those two, I would be lookalike email, lookalike Instagram, two separate ad sets. Um, and then, I don't know if you need to like minimize your, and then the Kickstarter. Yeah. Just do like target Kickstarter, filter down to the nostalgic toy thing that you're doing, and you might need to simplify those interests a little bit.
[00:48:13] Michael Harring: Mm-hmm.
[00:48:14] Azhelle Wade: Yeah.
[00:48:14] Michael Harring: Yeah. The first, like, I, I was doing well with, uh, well, I was getting the clickthroughs, I should say, on like, we weren't getting sales or, uh. Uh, honestly, I have no idea. Like, the ads have been awesome for, they've been great for my, uh, what was it for? For collecting email addresses? Um, I could not do if, like with, with the ads, like, I, I don't know if anyone is, uh, any new person has like, found and decided to pledge as a result.
[00:48:51] Michael Harring: Yeah. Like, as opposed to the people who've like, uh, come from the, um, uh, uh, like my, my email newsletters and, and like the outs. Like, uh, I, I have, it's been, um, I, I've gotten, uh, uh, three, uh, press outlets who, who've also like, talked about the campaign. Mm. And I, and I got like, like little bumps from each, each one.
[00:49:17] Michael Harring: Um. And I feel like those have all done more than the ads, but the ads have gotten me like people on the newsletter.
[00:49:28] Azhelle Wade: Mm. Yeah. I think that, I mean, I ideally, I mean I know you're not in TCA accelerator, but if we were in the accelerator, that would be, I would be having you build your email list, nurture them before you even launch the Kickstarter.
[00:49:38] Azhelle Wade: So you're sending it to them directly. 'cause we already know you have a 10%, um, conversion rate from your email list. So that's huge. So like, let's try, I mean, I would still drive, I would probably split my ad money. I would send half my ad money to my email list and then the other half probably using it for, to send people direct to Kickstarter.
[00:50:00] Azhelle Wade: Um. Because if you need to redo this launch, you still wanna be building your email list. You can see your email list is strong, very strong. So what that tells me is like, okay, next time I launch, the main thing I'm looking at is the size of my email list. If I know that I can make what you made like 18,000 off of a thousand people, like that's how many people want this toy, then you know, you have to get to your email list to 3000 to or to 4,000 to be able to fund a full production of the toy the way that you want it to be.
[00:50:33] Azhelle Wade: Mm-hmm. Um, so that's the only numbers you have to pay attention to. And then you can focus on your email list. I do think this is like part of the reason why, like, I don't mind when people wanna go off of Kickstarter because you can just track so much better and easier when you go off of Kickstarter. Um, okay.
[00:50:50] Azhelle Wade: One idea, last idea. If the ads are really working for email. I wonder if there's Or Uhhuh, go ahead.
[00:50:59] Michael Harring: I guess I should say that, uh, one of the reasons I did just stop that at some point. Yeah. Was it, they were just getting like, uh, that also sort of plateaued. So around a thousand, it started being like, like very little return on like the ad spend.
[00:51:15] Michael Harring: And that's when I kind of was like, okay, well let me that when you got a thousand
[00:51:19] Azhelle Wade: emails.
[00:51:20] Michael Harring: Yeah, yeah.
[00:51:21] Azhelle Wade: You might just have to refresh your creative. Um, I could,
[00:51:24] Michael Harring: that makes sense.
[00:51:25] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. I mean, I'd have to see, there's so many, so many nuances to ads, but the, the last idea I would have is if you could figure out a way, um.
[00:51:34] Azhelle Wade: To offer something people might want digitally in tandem with a Kickstarter. I don't know. Like, I don't know if you, so basically, I'm trying to think if you can create an ad to send people to sign up for your email list and say, if you sign up for this email list and you pledge to the Kickstarter by the date, we will send you a sticker sheet or we will send you a PDF, um, I don't know, poster that you can print out.
[00:51:58] Azhelle Wade: I don't something. That way you can kind of send people to your email list and then on the backend try to send them back to Kickstarter. You're adding more, um, process for you to track and manage on the backend. 'cause now you have people coming in through this special offer or that you offered them, I don't know, a sticker sheet.
[00:52:15] Azhelle Wade: Now you have to track that and make sure that if they get their goal, they also get a sticker sheet. But it's a way for you to control your Facebook spending and know that you're making, you're getting some benefit out of it. And you're not just sending people a land on a Kickstarter landing page that you can't even control.
[00:52:30] Michael Harring: Right.
[00:52:31] Azhelle Wade: So. We only have a few minutes, so I have to, um, keep going. I wanna celebrate the progress you've done so far. $18,000 is no small fee. Like you're getting, that's almost a hundred people saying, yes, I believe in your idea, and I believe in this project, and I want it to come to life. That's huge. I hope you feel like good about that.
[00:52:51] Michael Harring: Oh, absolutely. Oh, thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Okay,
[00:52:54] Azhelle Wade: good. I'm so glad. Um, what's one thing that you've done since joining TCA that you didn't think you were ever gonna do before you joined?
[00:53:02] Michael Harring: Oh, um, I mean, probably like the, the interacting with, uh, uh, the factories. Uh, I mean, I, I guess I sort of had an idea that like, it was possible, but like.
[00:53:15] Michael Harring: I mean, the amount of kind of like world shrinking, like, like to be, to be in touch with people, like, you know, essentially like on such different time zones that it's a different day. Yeah. And to be able to like connect a ask quite, you know, even with like a little bit of a language barrier, like, uh, like that, that was something that I was always like very nervous about, you know?
[00:53:41] Michael Harring: Mm-hmm. And, and the people I knew who did that, it's like, oh, they, they were flying to China, you know, like, like their companies were sending them to China for like weeks or months, you know, to like, learn the lay of the land. Yeah. Uh, to, and so like that alone and, and the encouragement and like the training, uh, to like, oh, this is, this is how you approach people.
[00:54:04] Michael Harring: This is how you be like, professional and like, uh, culturally sensitive. Mm-hmm. You know, as far as like. You know, 'cause 'cause we all have, uh, you know, uh, what was it? Our, our own like customs as far as like emails and like whatnot. Like as far as like being polite and what's like, like what this person sent me this and didn't even say Hello.
[00:54:26] Michael Harring: Yes. You know? Um, yeah. So that, that's probably the, like, that was incredible.
[00:54:32] Azhelle Wade: Oh, that's great. If someone's sitting there and thinking that they might join Toy Creators Academy or they're unsure if it's really for them, what would you say?
[00:54:40] Michael Harring: Yeah, I, I absolutely think it's worth it. Uh, I, I think, like I said, you know, I, I had friends who, who had some experience and, and that was honestly like, um, had me on the fence, uh, you know, from the beginning.
[00:54:55] Michael Harring: Um, the, the main reason I, uh, I'm glad I went and, you know, and one of the things that took me over is I was like, well. Leaning on my friend to tell me everything about the industry. It's like just a huge ask, right? Yeah. It's kind of like, hey, drop what you're doing 'cause I'm in an emergency. Yes. And uh, and then one of the things I don't think I realized back at that time was that by having access to the, your, like your fellow students
[00:55:26] Azhelle Wade: Yes.
[00:55:27] Michael Harring: To be able to like, see what they're going through. Mm-hmm. Because then you actually have peers and we're all kind of like, our problems might not be identical, but they're like close enough that you're just like. Oh, okay. Well now I actually know you, the factory window
[00:55:39] Azhelle Wade: sign. Your NNN either like, it's just Right.
[00:55:43] Michael Harring: Yeah, actually. Like, and that's exactly like a similar thing where sort of like, or uh, a one-to-one where it's just like, oh, okay. And, and then you also have, like, you end up having the same like different experiences with the factory or same experiences. Yeah. Or like wondering like, well, should I just forego the NNN here?
[00:56:04] Michael Harring: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And it's like, oh, okay. Well, in that case, maybe not, but just like being able to see these obstacles and realizing that like, you know, 'cause and, and, and some of the, uh, the people who have already gone through the program and are still like, learning, you know? Yeah. Like, like some of the students, you're like, oh, they've got this figured out because they're already, they're like.
[00:56:28] Michael Harring: They're in the us they're in Canada. They're in Australia. Like they're selling Yeah. All across the world. And you're like, they know everything. They know, and then they'll come out with questions and you're like, oh, actually, that's exactly applicable. You know, if not now, then it's like, I, it's at least reassuring to know that other people are in the same boat.
[00:56:45] Michael Harring: Mm-hmm. And I feel like that's also like an invaluable thing that, that you get from the program Yeah. That you wouldn't necessarily get if you were trying to like piece all of these things together, just like on your own alone. Yes. If that makes
[00:57:00] Azhelle Wade: sense. No, it does. It does. A hundred percent. I, it's hard for me to articulate.
[00:57:04] Azhelle Wade: And also the, the piece about asking friends and family for help. Uh, people often say, oh, Elle, like, you know, do I really need a coach? I can just ask this person. And it's. It's, this is my full-time job. So it's like the, the difference of asking someone to do you a favor and give you this contact or answer a couple of questions versus going to the person whose job it is to answer these questions, right?
[00:57:28] Azhelle Wade: Like I literally, all I do all day is like, check my email and check the Facebook group and check the accelerator group and like, what questions do people have? Let me find an answer or a new contact. That it's a huge difference because you can't be on everybody else's schedule when you're launching this idea.
[00:57:42] Azhelle Wade: So you need someone who can be on your schedule and that's, I think the, is the big difference when you hire help in this way. Um, and absolutely. I'd love to ask you my last question. I'm so sorry we have to cut this short. Um, but what toy or game blew your mind as a kid?
[00:57:58] Michael Harring: So. They're probably a bunch of 'em, but, uh, I'll go with, uh, Bolans.
[00:58:03] Michael Harring: Oh yeah. Which are kind of these little, okay. So like little puppet monsters. And the thing with Bolans kind, kind of similar to like the, the, my Pet Monster, you know, it's like it's a full scale monster. Yeah. That you can, uh, you can hold. The difference with Bolans was that it also had, uh, these eyes that moved.
[00:58:24] Michael Harring: So it's all like a very simple animatronic element. And so as I was seeing stuff like, you know, like Gizmo in movies and stuff like that, like the Bolans were almost like being able to pulled up out of the movie and have something in your hands. Uh, and was probably like, like early on I wanted to be a special effects artist.
[00:58:44] Michael Harring: And so like, that was one of the first things where like, you could actually own something. Yeah. That was almost like a movie prop. Hmm. So that, that blew, blew my mind. Those came
[00:58:57] Azhelle Wade: back in like 2020. I saw those at a toy show. Oh yeah, yeah. Absolutely. And I thought they were really cool then.
[00:59:03] Michael Harring: I totally have like, oh my gosh, you have a fun one.
[00:59:05] Michael Harring: One of the Reis issues.
[00:59:06] Azhelle Wade: They're so cool. Uh,
[00:59:08] Michael Harring: I, I held onto my original ones for the longest time, but then I was afraid they would like that the materials were gonna dissolve. Yeah. Um, and regretted that. So I was glad that they, uh, reissued them. Yeah. I think that's still like a idea. I hope, I hope they, uh, uh, bring those back soon.
[00:59:26] Azhelle Wade: Oh my gosh, I love them. Okay. Well Michael, this has been a pleasure. Please send me a screenshot of, if you don't mind your ads, I would love to just, oh yeah, I'm gonna do a quick screen record of like, I wanna put it into chat GBT and ask the questions the way I would ask them. I told you I was gonna make a short like masterclass or program on this 'cause I am, I've been running my best ads ever because of chat GBT this past two weeks.
[00:59:51] Azhelle Wade: And everyone needs to know how to ask these, how to do the ads this way. Like, it, it's incredible. It, it will save you so much time and money. So send me a screenshot of if you can Okay. Um, and make sure that you can see like click through rate, landing page, views, impressions, and the add name, um, in the screenshot.
[01:00:06] Azhelle Wade: And if you can't just export the data and send me that. Um, okay. Yeah, this was a pleasure. Thank you so much for Oh, thank you. This episode and I'm, we're gonna share it as soon as possible. I appreciate your time, Michael. I, good luck on your kickstart.
[01:00:22] Michael Harring: Thank you so much, Elle. I really appreciate it. It's, thank you so much.
[01:00:26] Azhelle Wade: Yes, take care, Michael,
[01:00:28] Michael Harring: all. Bye. You too. Bye-bye.
[01:00:31] Azhelle Wade: Well, there you have it Toy people. That was my coaching interview with Michael Herring, A TCA alumni. Now Michael was part of the core Toy Creators Academy program, and if you're listening. Now Michael was part of the toy. Now Michael was part of the core Toy Creators Academy program.
[01:00:50] Azhelle Wade: We had weekly calls when he first joined the program. That lasted 12 weeks, and if you are listening to this podcast and it's not yet October 9th, then you're in luck because, because you haven't missed the launch of TCA seven. That's right. We are bringing back live cohorts for Toy Creators Academy. You can be a part of Cohort seven.
[01:01:10] Azhelle Wade: Head over to Toy. Head over to toy creators academy.com/waitlist to sign up. Get on the wait list. Being on the wait list will give you access to special offers that will not be provided to anyone else, so do not miss your chance to get on that wait list. We talked about how he had success early on and the things he's planning to do moving forward to continue that momentum.
[01:01:34] Azhelle Wade: However, Michael already knows some changes he wants to make on the product and his innovations moving forward, and he was really running this Kickstarter as a test. Now I hope that if you are listening to this episode, you will find some inspiration and interest in his line, wayward Ghouls, and the Squeaks toys.
[01:01:51] Azhelle Wade: If so, please back Michael. Head over to wayward ghouls.com to learn more about his incredible campaign and the toy line that he is creating. Now if you love this podcast and you haven't already left a review, what are you waiting for? Your reviews keep me coming back week after week, and it inspires other guests who join me on this show.
[01:02:13] Azhelle Wade: If you really are really love the show, like you're a top, top fan, you can support the show as little as $3 a month. Head over to the toy coach.com/support and you'll see the info to support the show. It's kind of like a Patreon situation, and your support will help this podcast remain a free resource for aspiring toy creators like you.
[01:02:36] Azhelle Wade: Okay? So please, please support the show. As always, thank you so much for spending this time with me today. I know your time is valuable and that there are a ton of podcasts out there, so it truly means the world to me that you tune into this one. Until next week, I'll see you later. Toy people.
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