#273: The Tabletop Game Licensing Blueprint that Closed Major Deals with April Mitchell
Licensing a tabletop game doesn’t require years of experience or a perfectly polished prototype. What it really takes is a strong idea, a strategic approach, and the confidence to put yourself out there.
In this episode of Making It In The Toy Industry, I’m sitting down with April Mitchell, motivational speaker, licensing expert, TCA Alumni, and founder of 4A’s Creations, LLC. This past year April licensed 6 tabletop games!
How did she do it? April shares the creative system and pitching approach that helped her get those deals signed, all while co-creating a powerful resource for other game inventors , the Tabletop Game Design Masterclass with industry veteran Ed Gartin.
You’ll hear how a simple name like “Pizza Pie” sparked a full-blown licensing deal, why maintaining a pipeline of game ideas helps you license faster, and the key differences between virtual and in-person pitching that can make or break your chances. You’ll also discover what to do when a game isn’t clicking with playtesters, how to successfully collaborate with other designers, and why long-term momentum in licensing comes from strategy, not luck.
Listen For These Important Moments
[00:03:45] - Hear how a road trip idea became a fully licensed tabletop game and how April co-developed and pitched it with lightning speed.
[00:08:34] - Explore the pros and cons of virtual vs. in-person pitching and how choosing the right moment to go live can boost your licensing odds.
[00:13:38] - Discover how creative storytelling, educational twists, and everyday life inspired two of the most personal games April has ever made.
[00:17:33] - Learn how to juggle multiple game concepts at different stages so you’re always prototyping, pitching, or playtesting something.
[00:22:51] - The biggest takeaways from April’s journey from pitching smarter to building unstoppable momentum with the right system.
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This episode is brought to you by www.thetoycoach.com
Tabletop Game Design Masterclass:
https://www.thetoycoach.com/tabletop-game-design-masterclass
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[00:00:00] Azhelle Wade: You are listening to Making It in The Toy Industry, episode number 273.
[00:00:11] Welcome to Making It in The Toy Industry, a podcast for inventors, entrepreneurs, and makers like you. And now your host, Azhelle Wade
[00:00:23] Azhelle Wade: Hey there, toy people. Azhelle Wade here and welcome back to another episode of Making It In The Toy Industry. This is a weekly podcast brought to you by thetoycoach.com. Now, today's episode is a special one because today we're catching up with one of my incredible students who took Toy Creators Academy way back in the day when the program first started.
[00:00:46] Azhelle Wade: The incredible April Mitchell, April is back on the podcast, bringing us updates on her game design and invention journey. She's sharing her momentum, her wisdom. So listen up. April's been on fire lately. Licensing, not one, not two, but six games in the past year, including some really clever co-creations with other designers like Ed Gartin. Now, in this episode, you are going to hear how she went from having fun ideas on road trips and scribbling down names that evolved in major licensing deals, and she's gonna share what she's been doing to keep her product pipeline constantly moving.
[00:01:27] Azhelle Wade: We are also going to talk about the course that April and Ed Gartin co-created that is exclusively available on toycourses.com. That course is Tabletop Game Design Masterclass. So this course available on toy courses.com only is perfect for you if you've ever thought about licensing a tabletop game and you didn't know where to start. So you have an idea for a board game. You wanna sell the idea, collect mailbox money, AKA royalties, but you just aren't sure your idea's good enough, you need some help refining it, or you want some help developing the pitch materials for it.
[00:02:05] Azhelle Wade: So this episode is a great introduction to April's thought process, which is what is going to be inside of that course waiting for you. And it's a good introduction to the program that just might change the game for you, literally.
[00:02:19] Azhelle Wade: All right, so let's dive in. April, welcome back to the show.
[00:02:23] April Mitchell: Thank you so much. It's good to be here live in person.
[00:02:25] Azhelle Wade: Live in person. We're so close. Yes!
[00:02:28] April Mitchell: So cozy. Cozy.
[00:02:30] Azhelle Wade: My husband. That's our favorite phrase. We're always just like so cozy. We love saying that. Aw. Okay. So. You're, you've overwhelmed my cozy space with all of these games.
[00:02:41] Azhelle Wade: Oh, you've been up to a lot. Last time you were on the podcast, you kept alluding to games coming out, and there was a point where you, you didn't wanna say how many games you, you wanted to, you were coming out with, but there was a point where you kind of explained it and I was like, I don't know if she knows she did that.
[00:02:55] April Mitchell: So sounds like me.
[00:02:57] Azhelle Wade: So I'm curious, did how many games have come out since that episode? Ooh, what was it? Six months ago?
[00:03:02] April Mitchell: Oh gosh. Oh, now I have to brain think. Oh. Oh my gosh.
[00:03:07] Azhelle Wade: I think it's six. That's why I,
[00:03:08] April Mitchell: Yeah, I think it is five or six.
[00:03:10] Azhelle Wade: Yeah, because that's what you said that day. Yeah. I think it's five or six that day. You said something like two, and then you said something like four later, and then I was like, oh, so it's six? Well, yeah. You had six come out. Yeah. Yeah. Just in the past, what, three months, four months?
[00:03:22] April Mitchell: No, some came out in the fall, like right before Christmas. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:03:25] Azhelle Wade: And some of them are here with us today.
[00:03:27] April Mitchell: Yes. Super, super excited about these.
[00:03:29] Azhelle Wade: This is my favorite.
[00:03:30] April Mitchell: Oh my gosh. They did such amazing job with this game. This game, Pizza Pie. I co-designed with Ed Gartin. Huh. Uh, and Mindware licensed it. Wow. And it was one of those games that when we pitched it, we had a box that looked like a pizza box.
[00:03:45] April Mitchell: Yeah. We had like everything.
[00:03:46] Azhelle Wade: Yeah, you did have that.
[00:03:47] April Mitchell: Yeah. Not like, not amazing as this, but yeah. We had, the game box was a pizza box. We had all the pieces that, you know, they flipped, they did this same thing. So it was neat to see them, like the rules are the same, you know what I mean? Yeah. Like everything come together with the beautiful art. Like they did a fantastic job with it.
[00:04:02] Azhelle Wade: This looks legit like and oh, for it to be in New York city. Oh my. Gotta take photos of you.
[00:04:06] April Mitchell: I know. With the pizza. Yeah. Everything, I know. And I did just have like the best pizza last night.
[00:04:11] Azhelle Wade: Did you?
[00:04:12] April Mitchell: Oh, I wish I had this with me.
[00:04:13] Azhelle Wade: Where did you go?
[00:04:14] April Mitchell: No, it was one of those like little home. Yeah. But they had gluten free, you know. Oh. You know, and, but it was so good. Yeah. And I walked in there. Just for a Dr. Pepper. Yeah. Because I didn't have one all day and they had gluten-free. I'm like, I'm getting a pizza. We
[00:04:27] Azhelle Wade: New Yorkers believe it's the water. We don't know why our pizza's the best. I moved out. But it it's the water. We think it's the water.
[00:04:34] April Mitchell: It's so good. Yeah. So good. Yes.
[00:04:37] Azhelle Wade: So how is this game played? It says the pizza and pie game you'll flip for.
[00:04:41] April Mitchell: Yes. So this like the back of the box, you know, like the sell sheet we talk about it, right? Yes. Yeah. What's fun about this game is all the pieces are there. Slices. Mm-hmm. Are they have pizza on one side and pies on the other. Oh. So it's all mathed out so that there's the exact same different pies. Mm-hmm. As pizzas on the other sides and you are working together. It's a cooperative game to make two full pizzas and two full pies of the same. You know, it's gotta be all pepperoni or all veggie or, you know what I mean?
[00:05:07] April Mitchell: And then the same with the pies. And then once you do that, you win. But you can run out of spaces, but you can flip over the pieces. Okay. You can exchange them, move them around or toss 'em out. But you, you have to use a slice token to like get it out because there's only so many,
[00:05:23] Azhelle Wade: So all players are trying to build two piece of Oh, yeah.
[00:05:25] April Mitchell: Together. Yeah. Pans are all laid out in front of the table, and so it's, it's a really fun game, you know, for the families to think about and everything. Yeah. So they did a fantastic job with it.
[00:05:36] Azhelle Wade: So it's perfect to talk about a game that you co-designed with Ed, because you also co-designed a course with Ed called Tabletop Game Design Masterclass. If you wanna license games like this, you should definitely take that course.
[00:05:46] April Mitchell: Yes. And how rockstar of it too, like I know, you know, we're gonna lead into the next game. Yes. Also co-design with Ed Gartin. Yes. Which was so much fun, but I saw a question. Oh my God.
[00:05:56] April Mitchell: Yeah. Okay, I'll keep holding this. I I about everything.
[00:05:59] Azhelle Wade: Well, because I haven't seen this game yet. 'cause today we did, we did interview the, the founders of Hoot Nanny. So they did talk about, oh, they're amazing. This was all they brought No, it was like this in one more game. Yeah. I'm not gonna lie. Yeah. Um, but how did this idea start with you and Ed?
[00:06:10] April Mitchell: Yeah, so sometimes I will say I used to almost always start with the name of a game and a theme, and now I do both. Sometimes I'll stay, start with a game mechanic, but I called Ed and I'm like. Pizza Pie. It's the name of game. Ah. Pizza on one side, pie on the other. And then we started getting to work and like brainstorm.
[00:06:27] April Mitchell: How will it work? Do we wanna be fast?
[00:06:28] Azhelle Wade: Wait, you really, that was your inspiration?
[00:06:29] April Mitchell: That was Yes, because
[00:06:30] Azhelle Wade: Oh my God, you sound like those, like, uh, like those creative artists that are like, sometimes the muses just come to me and they say the things like, that's what it sounds like.
[00:06:37] April Mitchell: When I am in car rides, especially, I have a notebook and I just think of words and names, just random thoughts.
[00:06:43] April Mitchell: And then I'm like, is there something here? And pizza pie, just like, well, 'cause sometimes people who just eat pizza, call it pizza pie, but then there's pie. You know what I mean? Yeah. So it's like a play on words and like Yeah, it's, yeah. And it, anyway, so that's how that this one came to be was just like, okay.
[00:06:57] April Mitchell: And then we started what it would look like. Would it be cooperative? Is it fast paced, flipping cards, you know? Yeah. We tried different things and Yeah. And worked together to make this amazing game.
[00:07:06] Azhelle Wade: How long did it take from the idea that, from the day that you called him till you were ready to pitch it?
[00:07:10] April Mitchell: So the road trip was in July. I think. Uhhuh and I like called him that day, and then we got it ready for Chi Tag in November. Oh, okay. So people stopped. First there. And then Mindware, of course, was one of the people we pitched it to. Okay. And then they got it in the early spring, started play testing it, trying different things, and we signed it in July and it's here.
[00:07:31] April Mitchell: So that's not even a full year from signing.
[00:07:33] Azhelle Wade: April's always in any time. Oh my god, he's not. She's messing around. So I mean, it was, was November the first time you'd ever pitched to Mindware? No, I had pitched to them before. Okay. Okay. And how did that pitch go? Like did you know that they were gonna likely sign it?
[00:07:47] Azhelle Wade: How did you feel after that pitch? Yeah,
[00:07:48] Azhelle Wade: well they liked it right away and I think they thought, oh, we, some GA companies will take a sample right away. Yeah. Some were like, we have to review it. But I, you know, I wanna show this to the team, right. The video. Right. 'cause we always do a sizzle video from following Always a siz.
[00:08:01] Azhelle Wade: If you wanna learn how to do
[00:08:02] Azhelle Wade: a sizzle video, tabletop game design
[00:08:03] Azhelle Wade: masterclass. Yes. Take
[00:08:04] Azhelle Wade: the
[00:08:04] Azhelle Wade: course. So they, they, you know, show the team and then they play tested it and you know, it's gotta go through different levels Yeah. Of play tested video. Mine's a big company and it's a big company because they, they, so there's a few levels there.
[00:08:15] Azhelle Wade: And so it was. Super exciting to sign. So exciting this past summer. Yeah. What do you
[00:08:19] Azhelle Wade: think, like was there now that you're looking back, 'cause you've pitched a lot. Yeah. And this is definitely your biggest year yet Yeah. Of signing games. So now that you have that experience mm-hmm. When you look back at that meeting, were there cues or moments where you can say now, like, I.
[00:08:33] Azhelle Wade: Think that's when we got them, or I think that's when they were sold.
[00:08:35] Azhelle Wade: Sure. I don't know necessarily like if I can say that, but what I will say is that when you can pitch in person, I think it makes a difference. Ooh,
[00:08:43] Azhelle Wade: really? Yeah.
[00:08:44] Azhelle Wade: And I, I've licensed things off of Zoom. Yeah. I, you know what I mean? Yeah.
[00:08:47] Azhelle Wade: Like totally. But, but some games are better when someone can play them right there. Yeah. And I feel like if they play 'em in person, I'm more likely get to get them to want a sample. Mm. So does this mean you're gonna pull back on virtual pitching? No, no. She's like, no, I'll always pitch, but I'll, if I have something ready, you know?
[00:09:04] Azhelle Wade: But I think there's a good time of maybe some games I hold Right. And I hold onto for in person. Yes. And some maybe, maybe I do more virtual. I, you know, I mean, I'm always changing and learning it. It's really hard. And you know, at sometimes, you know, if people in other countries, I can only pitch to them via Zoom, and so I'm gonna keep doing that.
[00:09:22] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. But if I know I have something coming up and I have something like in three months, I have it live. Yeah. I might, might just hold it. And then pitch live. And then pitch,
[00:09:29] Azhelle Wade: you know, like I like giving my students like the opportunity to have virtual pitch events. Yeah. But it's more for introduction, right?
[00:09:36] Azhelle Wade: It's more for like the beginning of your journey. Sure, sure. And then I'm like, and then you should go toag, because that's how you follow up the conversation and. Do the updates and Yeah, do the in-person pitch. It's great. This is a heavy game. Where is it sold? How much does it cost? Retail
[00:09:50] Azhelle Wade: a you? Yeah, so it's, it's 24.99 and like, it's solid.
[00:09:53] Azhelle Wade: Right? Like it's, it's the value. Just amazing. I thought you were actually bringing people. Oh, I know. She's like, thank you. I was like, I'm sorry. Even at the front when they saw me, they're like, thank you. And I'm like, oh. So yeah, we're super excited about that. Where's it gonna be sold? Uh, eventually. Well, I mean, it's online and it's on Mindware.
[00:10:10] Azhelle Wade: Um, and, and Mindware does a lot of catalogs. Oh, okay. And then. So in time it will be more and more places. Awesome. Yeah. Okay. So that's really drained online when this come out, like literally two weeks ago, available online to purchase. Oh, and so like this is a show at, this is the
[00:10:24] Azhelle Wade: first show.
[00:10:25] Azhelle Wade: Yeah, no, I believe it was also overseas, but like the first show in the year.
[00:10:29] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. Over here, Nuremberg? Probably. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. But the first show here, so Wow.
[00:10:33] Azhelle Wade: Yay. Brand new baby. Brand new baby. Okay, we're gonna put this baby over to, okay. All right. Well, we discussed this baby. Yes. So
[00:10:39] Azhelle Wade: what is the deal with Disco Island Escape? Oh my gosh. A hoot Nanny did such an amazing job. This also was a collab with Ed Garton.
[00:10:48] Azhelle Wade: Okay. And so this. Game, like we had different ideas. Yeah. First this came with the start of the board. Like we knew like woo. We knew the board would go and people would have to go in or out. Okay. So yeah, I wanna show you. So the board's circular and people go in or out. Right. But you also can move side to side.
[00:11:04] Azhelle Wade: Wow. So you can go. Forward backwards, side to side. And with this one, it's super fun. And if you, we, if we want, we could They did. Yeah. Let's open it. They did Gimme the demo sample so we could open it up. Now, when we designed this game, it was called.dot dash. Yeah. And the idea is, you know, this like checkers meets candy, land meets, um, wow.
[00:11:22] Azhelle Wade: It's just a lot of fun here. It's beautiful board. So everyone starts their tokens in the middle. Mm-hmm. And you're trying to get to the like, so if I'm over here, I'm trying to get to the opposite side over here, because every, everything's. Groovy. A disco island. Oh, I see. And then everything erupts. Oh, so it's like the same guy with the red glasses?
[00:11:38] Azhelle Wade: His boat's over there. Yeah. So he's gotta get there. Oh, so they're trying to skate Disco Island? Yes. Oh my goodness. But you know what, you move through. Oh, that's why they move off with the colors you, the colors go through and you only need one card to go through. But let's just say you don't have a green card.
[00:11:53] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. What two colors make green, right? Oh, I could use these two cards down. For my green. Oh my God. Of course she would make a game like this. Like
[00:12:02] Azhelle Wade: she loves an educational
[00:12:03] April Mitchell: Oh, of course. She would sneak an educational element into it. Oh my, it's so fun. It's so fun. It's funny, like this was so fun to design with it and then I would have no idea there'd be an educational element until you got, and I'd be like, oh, but it, but it doesn't feel, you know what I mean?
[00:12:15] April Mitchell: Say that's clever. Then there's a little touch of like. The, sorry, like the take that, so if you land on someone else, you can pass through, but if you land on them, they have to go back and you flip to your groovy sign. Oh, what does that mean? Which means you go double the spaces. So if I put a red card down, I can go through two reds.
[00:12:30] April Mitchell: Oh, interesting. Or two woos for until I make it back, unless someone sends me. So the whole rest. The time. Yeah, I'm groovy. So the goal will be the first one on the boat to escape this sky with, with three of your tokens. Oh, okay. So you start with four and you've gotta get three of your four there, and you then are the winner.
[00:12:44] April Mitchell: And what is the age range for this game? Yeah, so this is amazing for all families. We have it set four four a plus, but we will, I will say, when we were demoing it, a PAC Unplugged. Yeah. Six year olds are playing this. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Because it's very intuitive, smarter, intuitive. People give them, yeah.
[00:13:01] April Mitchell: Credit for fun. Look at the card. Design was fun. And the Boogie, you can get all the way to safety with that card. Like boo Safety boogie to safety. Yes. So do you start the game with a certain number of cards? Yes. Everyone has three. And then you get to use all three cards each turn fun. Oh, okay. And then you just start all three no matter what.
[00:13:18] April Mitchell: So once in a while you might only be able to use two and that's okay. And then you just throw 'em all out and you get three new cards. Each time,
[00:13:24] Azhelle Wade: and I really like the insert, like, we don't even need to use a, a vac tray. We're using like cardboard, more sustainable and we're adding color inside of it. It's just beautiful.
[00:13:32] Azhelle Wade: Thank you. They did. It's really nice. Amazing job. Yes. And they were so excited about this. Yes. And and this is, it's
[00:13:38] April Mitchell: for show too. Yeah. So it. Came out right for Pax Unplugged, but this is the official launch show. Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah. So it was fun to play with with people. One more license to win one. Yeah.
[00:13:48] April Mitchell: 'cause this just came out to do or don't two what this, so this is the show? Yeah. So this is the party game of lists, lefts and bluffs. Okay. So I, as a mom of four teenagers, was finding myself having the weirdest things on my to-do list that I needed to go purchase or get or do. Really? Or what? It was like weird stuff.
[00:14:05] April Mitchell: You just really, you just wait someday. You just may know. But like the craziest things, I'm like, why is this on my. It's a do list. Can't even think of it right now, but like, like, you know, like just, oh my gosh, a mustache. Like, I don't dunno, like, I don't know, but just like weird things for teenagers and like me and like just, I don't know.
[00:14:22] April Mitchell: What's fun about this game is you get all these to-do items. Yeah. Everyone starts with 10 and you're trying to get rid of them and some things you really have done in real life and some things you definitely haven't. Okay. So there's things like making a peanut butter jelly sandwich too, like riding on a hot air balloon or whatever.
[00:14:36] April Mitchell: Okay. But you do the dice roll and it's, is it something I have done? On. I haven't, or I've done more than once or something that's on my list, but I haven't done yet. Yeah. And that gets, like when that one's rolled and people put their item out, they get some, like, I don't believe you stuff happening, but if I'm the active player, everyone puts their one item out and I get to pick one person that I call.
[00:14:57] April Mitchell: Fing on like, I don't believe you. So it's like, it's
[00:14:58] Azhelle Wade: almost like a get to know you game. Like you kind of choose like what thing, and then the dice determines whether you have or haven't done it. Well,
[00:15:05] April Mitchell: so the dice, so I roll the dice of the active player, and then everyone has to pick something from their actual list.
[00:15:10] April Mitchell: Oh, from the actual list and put it out. Mm. And you're trying to get rid of things from real life. Right. And you're gonna have to fib because, so you don't wanna be called out, right? You're like, oh yeah, but you don't say anything unless you're called out. Then you might have a story to tell. Oh, that's. So like for one example that's not too crazy is like for something that's on your list, but you haven't done, my son thought I haven't bought a lighter.
[00:15:30] April Mitchell: And we're like, well why? What would a teenager need a lighter? Oh my gosh. Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. All the things are going through your head and, and of course this is just a game. So he was like, well, we camp a lot, we hike a lot. Like what if I, something happens and I need to start a fire and you're like.
[00:15:45] April Mitchell: Okay, fine. You win that one. Like, like, okay. So he says he didn't do that, so I don't understand, but it's on his list. Yeah. Oh, but it's on. Oh, like, like, yeah. Yeah. Do you choose your list? No, it's random. You pick it, so you're gonna get things that interesting you really have done and things you haven't, you might have to And you like finishing?
[00:16:00] April Mitchell: Yeah. Getting. All the things outta your list. So once you use it, it goes in the middle again. So you're, you're seeing your list of 10 things go all the way down to zero. But if I call you up for fiving and you really didn't fib you tell your story and it's like, okay, fine. She really did do that thing. I get your item added to my list and I get an X.
[00:16:18] April Mitchell: You know, I don't want my list to grow. So like lists are going interest. Yeah. Yeah. How long is a gameplay? Oh, it's only 25, 30 minutes. And if great, what's great is it's three to 10 players. You know, some already. Yeah. Wow. Super easy. Really, its, and it's like a good conversation, right? It's good to know you, but it's, it's like strategy, right?
[00:16:37] April Mitchell: Yes. Like, will people believe me? Should I choose this one for this? Yeah. Yeah. Or like, no one's gonna believe that I did this, right? So shouldn't do this right now, but at some point, some point you have to. Dope.
[00:16:47] Azhelle Wade: You have to, it doesn't matter you. So it's super, I think my husband would like this game a lot.
[00:16:51] April Mitchell: Yeah. Yeah. And what's cool about this that I love is when I pitched this, I also made a mockup box and it was lined paper that would, same thing. Yeah. Like a check, like you know, the notepad with like the to-do list. And stuff like that. And so the tagline, this company Outset Media? Yeah. Also, so they're based outta Canada.
[00:17:07] April Mitchell: Okay. And um, you might have, they also do puzzles Okay. As well. So, yeah, they are fantastic. Wow. You find all of these like, well, they also go to CHI tag. Oh, I from there. Okay. I can meet them. Yeah. Yeah, call me.
[00:17:22] Azhelle Wade: I just wanna
[00:17:23] April Mitchell: make that sounds great. So yeah, so this will actually be available online by May. So it's here at the show, but it will be available very soon.
[00:17:31] April Mitchell: So keep an eye out for this party game.
[00:17:34] Azhelle Wade: So like you've created a lot of momentum for yourself. Mm-hmm. What do you think it. Is that got you to this year where you have so many products coming out as an inventor, like that's not the norm.
[00:17:46] April Mitchell: Well, I will tell you, it's lots of ideas. Right. And then having to choose what to work on, right?
[00:17:51] April Mitchell: Yeah. And I, sometimes I think, I think something's amazing, but the play touch don't and I have to leave it. And that's hard. So you, you know, recognizing when to push through with something Yeah. And when to leave something back. Behind, and maybe it's not forever, but like something's missing. Right? Right.
[00:18:05] April Mitchell: And you say, okay, focus on these. Um, so that's important. But then also lots of ideas, right? If I just am working on two or three Yeah. You know, how can I, how can I license six many? It could be a. Five, it could be a dozen, but they're all in different stages. So maybe I'm prototyping something or I'm prototyping a couple of things and I'm play testing some others and I'm working on a video and Yeah.
[00:18:27] April Mitchell: You know, so having things in different stages, and that's how you're keeping this momentum, like, right. Yeah.
[00:18:31] Azhelle Wade: So it's like, it's not really that you built momentum, but it's like that you never stop. Right. It's a cycle. Right? It's
[00:18:36] April Mitchell: like,
[00:18:36] Azhelle Wade: like a little, little spring,
[00:18:37] April Mitchell: like it's,
[00:18:38] Azhelle Wade: you know. Do you think you'll be able to, by next year.
[00:18:40] Azhelle Wade: Launch another like six.
[00:18:42] April Mitchell: Gosh, that's, that would be amazing. Great record breaking. It would be amazing. Um, I, I know hopefully the way things are going, we'll have a few more coming out. And then I'm also looking to self-publish. Oh, yeah. Which your, your course, my course, um, is helpful for that. So I'm re-looking at some of those things because I've got licensing now, like, you know, how to create, how to make the games, how to pitch.
[00:19:04] April Mitchell: I have that down. So now, like just going back and saying, what can I learn? Yeah. From your course to. Sell it to sell it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Which is great. Well,
[00:19:12] Azhelle Wade: I, I wanna wrap up this conversation with your course with Tabletop Game Design Masterclass. We did partner to put it on toy courses.com. Yes. But I wanna know, like, what is one thing you want people to take away from your experience licensing?
[00:19:25] Azhelle Wade: And like, why did you decide to make a course to help people do that? Right? Like, why don't you, people might say like, why don't you just like. Tell me what to do April. Like why can't you just, why can't I just text you? Or why can't I just message you on LinkedIn? Yeah. Why'd you
[00:19:35] April Mitchell: make a course to help? Well, we had a lot of people reaching out to us because one, we liked, we were doing the small videos anyway with like little bits and bites of, you know, pieces Yeah.
[00:19:44] April Mitchell: And things like that. And we had so many people reaching out to us. And then it was also a way to like kind of track our, what we're learning, what we've done. Same. Yeah. And it was a nice way to like put it all together so that, okay. We were saying, go watch this video. Go watch this video. Mm-hmm. But there was so much more Yes.
[00:20:00] April Mitchell: That we cannot, unfortunately have the time to teach to everyone individually. Yeah. So this is a great way to get everything together that Ed and I, and he has like years in the industry, more than I. Mm-hmm. Together all in one place. Yeah. That takes you through every step so that if you have an idea already, awesome.
[00:20:17] April Mitchell: So we're gonna have you look at that and go through that, but then also get it ready to pitch the marketing material and the pitching. Yeah. But then also if you're like, I want to. Do a game, but I'm not sure. You know, we help you ideate, we help you learn the creative process and how to make those changes and, and the importance of play testing.
[00:20:32] April Mitchell: Mm-hmm. And game directions and writing those things and yeah, getting everything ready. So whether you wanna license it out or you wanna self publish, you should really take this, you know, the course because it's gonna help you through all of those steps. And instead of pitching to company's license, now you're gonna end up using that information when also then getting.
[00:20:50] April Mitchell: The help with the publishing side Yes. From, from your course. Yeah. Is then, you know, you're gonna be still pitching it to people to get into the retail stores. So it's a little bit of tweaks.
[00:20:58] Azhelle Wade: Do you really think, like for somebody who's done this, that, that
[00:21:01] April Mitchell: mm-hmm.
[00:21:01] Azhelle Wade: That course would've helped you in when you were first starting out?
[00:21:03] Azhelle Wade: Oh my gosh,
[00:21:04] April Mitchell: yeah. So much with everything going place. 'cause I learned from different mentors and so much is just what I had to learn by doing. Mm-hmm. And if, I think it can cut out years, years, people, years. And you can finish it in what a week. You, you, you could if you wanted to, but if you're going. Full steps in letting everyone play test and really go and iterating and play testing.
[00:21:24] April Mitchell: You know? Definitely a couple, a few months for sure. For sure. Yeah.
[00:21:26] Azhelle Wade: But to listen to everything. Oh, you could listen to it and then you can go through the steps and then go back.
[00:21:31] April Mitchell: Yeah, for sure. For sure. Which would be great. I would've saved you years. Oh my gosh, yes. 'cause it took me a, at least a couple years before I licensed something.
[00:21:37] April Mitchell: Mm-hmm. In the industry. And then once I did, yeah, it was just.
[00:21:40] Azhelle Wade: Yeah, it's interesting 'cause like you made your course after a year of pitching mm-hmm. A year or two of two years. A couple years of pitching. Yeah. Two years of pitching at least. And like now you can see the results of what you're doing. Right.
[00:21:52] Azhelle Wade: And I didn't make mine until I'd worked in the industry for like 10 years. So it's like, that's why we're like, no, no, this is really like, it's all the information like happening. Right. If you sat down and explained everything in your course, that would take someone like. 20. Oh my gosh. Hours of sitting talking to Ruth.
[00:22:06] Azhelle Wade: Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Talking so much. So yes. I will put the link to April's Chorus tabletop Game Design Masterclass in the show notes for this show or below this video where you're watching. April. Thank you so much. Yes, I know you have to run to a meeting. It's toy fair. We're busy. Right. So I really appreciate your talking today.
[00:22:20] Azhelle Wade: Of course.
[00:22:21] April Mitchell: Thank you. I appreciate it. Show. Thank you. Take care. Take care. Okay.
[00:22:24] Azhelle Wade: Okay. Joy people. That was my interview with April Mitchell. April, if you're listening to this, thank you so much for sitting down with me and catching up and sharing your insights since licensing so many games recently. Before we wrap up today's episode, I'd like to focus on some of the.
[00:22:43] Azhelle Wade: Biggest educational moments from today's interview because there were a lot of golden nuggets hidden here that I want to make sure that we highlight. So every aspiring game designer listening can really hold onto them and take them away from this podcast. Alright, first up, pitching in person can be a game changer.
[00:23:03] Azhelle Wade: Now look. I love doing my virtual pitch events. We do them every year for our Toy Creators, academy alumni and students and virtual events are a great way to get your foot in the door to get started in the toy industry, they are low risk, they're low investment from both you and the toy company. It's a great way to get yourself just intro to some new people, but.
[00:23:28] Azhelle Wade: After you do those virtual events and be one or two, it is time to go in person. When you're able to show your game live and let people play it in real time, your chances of getting a deal or an option or interest is going to skyrocket because people can feel what it's like to play your game. They can feel the energy that your game is gonna create for families and the potential virality of it.
[00:23:53] Azhelle Wade: You cannot get that from a virtual pitch. Okay? Number two, momentum doesn't come from luck. It actually comes from systems. In today's interview, April shared that she keeps ideas flowing by working on multiple concepts at once each in a different stage of development. But it's the systems for keeping those development stage moving that allows her to do that.
[00:24:17] Azhelle Wade: So don't just think that like, oh, I'm gonna get lucky with one good meeting and another good meeting. Is really about the checks and balances you put on yourself as an inventor, making sure that you check in with different ideas at different stages regularly, and move them forward to the next stage.
[00:24:34] Azhelle Wade: Three. You don't need a perfect plan or a complete idea to start developing and licensing game ideas. Some of our guests, today's most successful games, began with just a fun name or a fun concept or theme, scribbled in a notebook. And for her, the magic happened when she really took the next step and started building the game.
[00:24:56] Azhelle Wade: Sometimes that was with a co-creator. Sometimes that was by herself. But you've gotta give those ideas. Time to develop. Don't expect the first idea. You have to be the perfect one. Give it time to grow. Give it the space. To have the right timing come about for that game. Sometimes you can come up with an idea in one year and it not really be quite relevant to the industry until a year or two later.
[00:25:22] Azhelle Wade: Okay. Now, if you specifically are dreaming about getting your game on store shelves and you want specific guidance on developing a tabletop game, what makes a good play pattern for a game? How to go about brainstorming that in a way that you are seeing today works from the examples given by our guest.
[00:25:47] Azhelle Wade: I really want to encourage you to check. Out Tabletop Game Design Masterclass. This is a course exclusively available on toy courses co-created by April Mitchell and Ed Gartin. And the goal of this course is to walk you through every step of the tabletop game design and then licensing journey. So you're gonna go from idea to pitch and you'll find the link to the course in the show notes where you are listening to this episode.
[00:26:14] Azhelle Wade: Now if you need help coming up with ideas for games, preparing your sizzle video or pitch deck, again, check out the links where you're listening to this episode. Uh, you could head over to the toy coach.com/ 2 7 3 and the links will be waiting for you there as well under the mention in this episode section.
[00:26:33] Azhelle Wade: And hey, send me a message on Instagram at the Toy Coach. And tell me, do you have a toy or a game idea that you've been sitting on but you haven't moved forward with? Why? Why haven't you taken that step? Let me know the reason or something that's been holding you back, and perhaps I can offer a little guidance to help you get over that hump.
[00:26:52] Azhelle Wade: You can even tag me in a story. If you wanna share this episode or share your process of developing your game, I would love to cheer you on and share your story in my stories. As always, thank you so much for spending this time with me today. I know that your time is valuable and that there are a ton of podcasts out there, so it truly means the world to me that you tune into this one.
[00:27:13] Azhelle Wade: Until next week, I'll see you later. Toy people.
[00:27:18] Thanks for listening to the Making It In The Toy Industry Podcast with Azhelle Wade Head over to the toy coach.com for more information, tips, and advice.
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